The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Strange '54 Engine numbers

I have a strange set of numbers on my 54 engine
the numbers on the lower block (passengers side) say: CON 3, next to it is D154 there is nothing else on this side of the engine.

On the drivers side above the carbureator is the numbers 3836848, above that inside the valve spring area on the left side is CON 9 to the right of the carb (inside the same area) is A 209

It has a rochester carb.

I cannot figure out how to add photos here...sorry.

HELP!!!!!!...does anyone know what I have. I know it is suppost to be a 54 235 (?)

Sounds like you have a '54 block with a '56-'62 head. Not really a bad thing, as the "848" head is the desireable head for the 235/261.

The D154 breaks down to:
D = April
15 = 15th day
4 = 1954

If you look up by the fuel pump there should be a casting number.

Is there not a stamped number on the little flat pad left of the distributor? That's the engine serial number and has useful info for ID'ing your motor.

No numbers on right (passenger) side except CON 3. There does not appear to have ever been anything there (not filed off) I have photos, bit can't put them on here. (The only other numbers on the right side are the D154 which have been decoded) I think longbox55 is correct that I have a 56+ head on the engine Not sure where the rochester came from.

The A 20 9 head date-casting code is probably, January 20th 1959.

Here are locations of various head and block codes.

A Rochester carburetor was the standard carburetor from about 1950 through the end of the run of the 235/261 engines.

If there is no engine serial number and that number/code has not been ground off, it is possible you have a replacement block.

Sometimes the vehicle serial number was used for titling/registration and sometimes the engine serial number was used for registration/titling.

I've got an early 261 out of a 55 1st farm truck that I couldn't find the cast number at first. Like Dave states look by the fuel pump, in front of the pump in the depresion between the oil pan flange and the horizontal raise cast rib in the block above it. Had to dig to find it on mine as it was well cover 55 years of ancient grease. Has high mount water pump, no thermostat by-pass, only a by-pass oil filter and very few drilled holes on the sides of the block when compaired to the '59 261 I've also got sitting waiting for something to happen. The '55 the correct 'B' but the '59 has a 235 'B'. Rochester 'B' carbs are just like Dave, pre '68!

I just looked it up the in the parts catalog I received from patricks. The 3836848 is from the cylinder head and it is from a 1956 235 engine.

CON 9 I just do not remember where I read it, if I remember correctly it stands for the conveyor number.

The second set of cast (raised) numbers from the rear or the passengers side will tell exactly when the block was made. The letter will be the month A = Jan, B=Feb, C = March etc. the next 1 or 2 numbers will be the day and the last number will be the year. Any motors masde in late September ("I") was put in a newer year model. As an example if you had a 1955 casting on a motor with a date code in late September it will be in 1956 body, so blocks with a date code of I,J,K and L will be in the next years models.

The casting number on the block will be the 7 digit block casting number just next to the distributer towards the front of the motor and it will begini with a 3-7-x-x-x-x-x or a 3-8-x-x-x-x-x.

The engine serial number will be stamped and it is located to the side of the distributor towards the rear of the mortor and its above the dip stick tube.

Looks like someone has been doing there homework!
Except the 848 head is not only 56 but started in 56.

Actually again thanks to Patricks catalog there are (2) 848 heads, the 1956 #3836848 and the 1958-1962 #3864848 other than the difference years I do not know what the difference is. I have both heads and would like to know. Are these both higer compression heads?

Looks like I need to do more research. Does it ever end?

Am I clear that you have both heads with these numbers?
I have heard of this before but I discounted it as the casting number charts are often incorrect.

I just checked my GM parts books. I have 1956,57,& 61 books and all show the 3836848 as the casting number.

Dave,

I think there are atleast 2 848's.

It's been years and memory is the first to go, but
I think it's was something like,
56-57 are 8.0 to 1
58 is 8.25
59-62 maybe 8.25 also, but not sure.

I just checked GM Heritage site and it shows
1956-57 8.0 to 1
1958-62 8.25 to 1

I thought that the 3836848 head became available in 1956, but I have no documentation. It is listed as the high pressure 235 replacement head in the 1957 Master Parts Catalog, so I would guess it was available/used in at least 1957 235s?

Tim, it is in my 1956 parts book.
Some of these are hard to nail down.
I still would like to see the 3864848 or at least a pic.

Dave,

I have found a variety of 1956 848 postings by way of a web search. However, none of the people who say they have a 1956 235 with an 848 head gives a date casting code from the head.

Maybe someone with a 1956 truck with an original engine will read this, and will post the head casting code and the head date casting code?

Here is what was on my 1956 Chevy 3100 235 head. 3836848, GM7, E106, CON12, B43, 848, 850

The Block is 0365139 F56X, 15 004, 3837004, GM14, CON4, E176

I purchased a running motor Block #3769716 and head #3836848

All these numbers are confusing me

TinyJaime,

Wait to hear from others, but it looks to me that you have an "848" 1956 head:

Head: 3836848

E106 - E 10 6 : May 10 1956


Block: 3837004

E1710 - E 17 6 : May 17 1956

0365139 = serial number = 365139-1000 = 364139th vehicle off the assembly line that year

Engine serial number: F56X : 1956 assembly in Flint, MI into a 3100/3200 regular production truck


Thanks for posting the codes.

Tiny, in a previous post you said you have a 3864848 head.
What is the date code on that head. That is the mystery head.

Yes last night i double checked it and verified all the numbers that I just written. I have the same number on both heads. They guy i bought the motor told me the wrong number and i assumed it was correct. Well we all know what happends when we assume. In all reality I just looked at the last 3 numbers. I think i was looking too hard at the patricks book. Sorry guys. Thanks dave you were correct no matter how you look at it i made the error. I can not wait to easter so i can go hide the eggs and leave the go find them an hour later.

The 848 head is listed in MPC, dated, effective, April 1, 1956.

Listed in 1956 catalog and also 1959 catalog as

Casting # 3836848
Part # 3730415

It is also listed in the Passenger catalog 1938-64,
with a different Part #.

Casting # 3836848
Part # 3836954

Online I have seen a 848, GM 7, date code A266.

Thanks for clearing that up Tiny.

I checked all my 848 heads (7 of them) and all are 3836848, that includes 2 1956 date code heads. So it looks to me like 848 heads were used in 1956.

I am still pondering why the compression increase from 8.0 to 8.25 in 1958.
Is there a difference in the combustion chamber or did Chev change the way they measured them.
I will need to CC some heads.

The only difference that I can find (so far) in engine specs between 1957 and 1958 truck 235 engines are in the valve springs:

235 & 261
1956/1957 - 74 lbs at 1 27/32" (2.156 free length) - Rotocoil valve rotators only in 261
1958 - 194-204 lbs at 1 29/64" (open length) - Rotocoil valve rotators in 235 & 261

It should also be noted that the 261's compression changed from 7.8 to 8.0 between 1956/1957 and 1958.

Are the rocker arms different? I'll look for more differences.

It is interesting that the part number in my 56 and 61 books are the same.

Chev sometimes will use the same casting number for two parts that end up being machined different, but I have never seen the same part number used even if there's the slightest differences in the part.

Rockers would have no effect on compression ratio, it only has to do with how much volume in the cylinder is being squished into the cylinder head combustion chamber.

I believe the head is from a 56 per it's numbers....I still have not resolved the engine block numbers. ......I was told this was a 54 engine,could it be a 56? The rocker arm cover has the 4 mounting / fastning holes as shown for a 54. Could a 56 be modified for a 54 valve cover???...why???

Thanks for everyones help.

can someone explain how to install photos???

Bill M

Tim,

I'm jumping in to correct something you posted earlier in this thread,

You said, "0365139 = serial number = 365139-1000 = 364139th vehicle off the assembly line that year".

The engine serial number was not used to identify when a vehicle came off the assembly line, the chassis serial number does that. The engine serial number was stamped on in the engine assembly shop long before it got to the final body/chassis assenbly line. So the engine in question is the 364139th out of the engine shop for the 1956 model year.

Mike B

Thanks for the correction/information, Mike.

Was the engine assembly plant plant in Flint, MI, or was the truck/vehicle assembly plant in Flint, MI?

Bill,

Are you referring to this block:

Block: 3837004
E1710 - E 17 6 : May 17 1956
0365139 = serial number = 365139-1000 = 364139th engine off the assembly line that year

Engine serial number: F56X : 1956 assembly in Flint, MI into a 3100/3200 regular production truck

That is a 1956 block. And, based on the date codes on the head and block, the head and block are a good match.

Also, all 235/261 engines from 1954 onwards used valve covers that were attached to the head with 4 machine screws, two on each side of the valve cover.

All 216s, and pre-1954 235s had two-bolt valve covers.

Wow this is a good topic. I know it does not affect anything but does anyone know why you subtract 1000 to get what motor number came out of that plant for the year? Did they do the same math on the chasis?

Body numbering started at 1001 for most years in the '50s era. I don't know about engine numbers.

In 1956, both the engine and vehicle serial/sequence number were treated the same way. You subtract 1000 from the unit number to obtain the sequence/serial number.

I do not think that anyone has posted GM/Chevrolet documentation that states that GM placed any codes on the chassis in 1956. Some states (and some peope) might have placed a code on the chassis.

Where is your chassis code located; and, what is the code?

May red58 (Bill), or someone else, will post information here. I think there was a recent discussion on chassis codes?

The number on the frame rail is 56L011896, it is located on the top of the frame on the drivers side close to the front tire. The number on the door jamb is 3A56L011896. The fame rail id does not appear to be hand stamped.

frame numbers started in the TF series - the leading model ID is never on the frame rail [the '3A' part] - and it was likely 'hand stamped' with the aid of a machine, the frames were stamped when the frames were assembled, the door tags were stamped to match the frame number
a friends 56 frame

Bill

here is a pic of my head when i bought the truck

http://s1291.beta.photobucket.com/u...-08-25_21-55-30_398_zps530e74cf.jpg.html

Here is a pic of the frame id

http://s1291.beta.photobucket.com/user/stovebolt56/media/2012-08-25_21-02-21_17.jpg.html

Tim,

You asked, "Was the engine assembly plant plant in Flint, MI, or was the truck/vehicle assembly plant in Flint, MI?"

The answer is both...Chevrolet made their engines in Flint "F" and Tonawanda "T"...they also have a body assembly plant in Flint, but not in Tonawanda.

Mike B

The TF trucks Chassis/Body serial numbers didn't follow that starting number for all years, they are as follows:

1955 = 001001
1956 = 001001
1957 = 100001
1958 = 10001
1959 = 100001

So subtracting 1000 only works for 55 & 56.

Engine serial numbers ended after 1956.

Mike B

Did we ever get a block cast # from the OP?

Looked at 3 head I have, 2 '58s & 1 '60, all are 3836848 cast.

Thank everyone for your help with my question about the head vs engine block. I cannot resolve the numbers until i return to Georgia (where the truck is located) until after the new year. I will look again in every place everyone has suggested and we'll see what shows up. This has been a good conversation and I am looking forward to finding all the answers!!!!!...For now, Merry Christmas and Happy New year!!

BillM