The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay Negative Battery Cable HOT

I have a 1951 Pickup, it is converted to a 12 volt (has alternator) do not believe starter or anything else was changed (this work was performed with previous owner). Was working fine, recently it started smoking the Negative Battery cable at the Chassis when I try to crank it up. It will not Start with the key and starter. It only has a low grind sound when applying the starter. It will crank if I roll it off. I have been told it is my ground strap, battery cables, and starter. I have changed the ground strap and battery cables. It has not resolved the issue. This is my first truck, so I am really not sure where to turn. Can someone here help guide a newbie (to reapairing), though I have loved these machines for 25 years and desired one. Thanks In Advance, If I have posted in the wrong place I apologize..

You need a good ground to the frame from battery and a good ground to engine from battery.(may be engine to frame) Also the starter bolts must be tight to obtain a good ground.

I am connected on the frame from the Negative Battery cable, I have scrubbed the area with a wire brush to insure clean metal, this is the original place the cable was connected. I have also wire brushed the area where the Ground Strap is connected. It is connected from the block to the chassis. All bolts seem to be tight, I will try to tighten more tomorrow to take your advice. If this does not solve the issue, do you think it really could be the starter? I just don't want to put money into the starter if it really does not need it. Thanks

Try using a set of jumper cables from the battery to the ground (use bolt at starter mounting) and the hot on the starter itself.
Have you checked the battery to see if it is in good shape?
You can take the starte roff and have it tested by a reputable shop as well
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One more thing I have thought of was which type of starter do you have? floor stomp or push-button/key start (solenoid on top of the starter)
If you have the floor-stomp type, the switch on top of the starter could be going/gone bad.
The switch should be available at a good auto-parts store.

There's a few things I'd want to know first. Does the wire smoke at the connection, but the cable stays cool?? (bad ground) Is the wire getting hot?? (short in starter) If the cable stays cool and you ensure the ground is taken care of next i'd be ruling things out. One guy thought it might have been the solenoid. Well, put your truck in neutral, turn the key to the on position (but don't start) and under the hood, bypass the solenoid with a screwdriver or a thick piece of cable by jumping the big wires. (that's your 12v from the batter to the starter, the little ones go to your starter switch). It sounds more to me like it's going to be a bad starter.

Mechainiac,

I tried what you suggested about using the Jumper Cable to link from the battery terminals directly to the starter (positive) and to the starter bolt (actually I connected to a spot just above the starter where the ground strap is located).

It did not work. It caused the negative cable on the set of jumper cables to become extremely hot.

By the way, the battery is brand new, seems to be in excellent shape, probably only has 2 hours worth of running on the battery itself.

It is a foot starter.

I am more in line with the belief that it is a starter issue now. I will take the starter off and have it checked out. Can a place like Advance or AutoZone perform the test on a starter as old as this? Will they be able to test the button you referenced on the starter?

As you guys may tell I am kind of getting addicted I left work during my lunch break to try your recommendations and I want to take the next week off to do some work, try all your advice on this website not to mention taking out a loan to do all the things I want to do

Dan,

To answer your questions, the smoke comes from the cable where it connects to the Chassis and the wire becomes, from end to end VERY HOT.

I will have to try out the solenoid trick after work. If it still does not start and becomes extremely hot, then does that mean it is the starter.

By the way when I tried the connecting using the jumper cables as described above, the starter did not grind or turn at all, I just heard a click and checked the cable (negative) and it was HOT.

Does that mean that it is the starter, or could it still be the solenoid?

Thanks for all your advice
This site is GREAT

One problem you guys live TOO far away.

WHOAH<,,,,, if you have a foot starter, you do not have a solenoid.
If you hooked the jumper cables up and they got hot without doing anything else, you either hooked up the wires wrong, or something is not right with the starter, battery or connections...
Is this truck a GMC?

Mechainiac,

Thanks for the heads up about no solenoid. I did not even look for one, I just took the starter off and took to AutoZone and I just returned, they say that it is bad and have referred me to a place down the road that can rebuild it as a 12 Volt in the original casing.

Concerning when it gets hot, the wire (negative) was getting hot only when I tried to crank the engine, no other time.

It is not a GMC it is a '51 Chevrolet.

Thanks for all the help...

Now, how about the theory that I keep hearing, that a 6V starter will survive just fine on 12 V. I think it would be nice to have a survey on that.

"Is this truck a GMC?"
Beat me to it Mech!

My '55 1st was 12-volt when I got it, and the starter died six months later.

I replaced it with a 12-volt starter with a selinoid and now key start.

Several of us have been running 6 volt starters on 12 volt systems for quite some time. Failure will occur if the starter is ran long enough to get hot, I was always told not to crank for more than 15 seconds. Mine's been in for 3 years, about 7,000 miles and have had no problems.

For all those who responded THANK YOU

It was the Starter, it had a short in the casing, had to have it rebuilt and a new armature installed. Got the starter back this evening and I installed it, it fired right up first crank. Thanks again

I think it's got to be the starter. But seriously I have a couple of them 6 volt 50 for the new one and 25 for the older one that worked when I parked it. I'm going with a 250 12 volt so don't need them but I did pay for them so don't want to give them away. The new one was used just long enough to ruin a 54, 235 with no shims with the main bearings. So I bought it. new clutch,cam,rebuilt head, oil pump but the rest got fried. All but one piston broke. The P.O. missed the shim part.O

Ah-h-h, the POWER OF THE STOVEBOLT site!!

I had the switch in my stomper go bad and act like this once. Instead of making contact it'd short to ground when engaged. Easy to tell if that's it by just taking the switch (on the starter) apart and look for smoke and ashes. This also a good chance to steel brush the brass contacts in there.

I love it when people keep coming up with solutions long after it has been solved. Doesn't anybody read all the posts?