The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline 65 K10 Tire is rubbing on the pitman arm! Help!

Hello to all -
I am brand new to this site, as we just purchased a 1965 K10 shortbed fleetside!

After a couple hundred miles, it is very evident that the pitman arm is contacting the inside left front tire when turning right.

The previous owner/restorer installed power steering and power disc brakes. The steering wheel turns about 3-1/4 turns lock to lock, and the pitman arm contacts the tire at about 1 turn to the right.

The truck has a 6" lift (I think) and has new 315/70/R17 tires.

I have photos of the truck, the front axle and disc brake (if needed to ID), and the pitman arm as it contacts the tire. I will have to figure out how to post them or I can email them to you.

Has anyone had this issue? Does a pitman arm with different geometry solve the issue?

Any advise would be a great help, including where to possibly buy the needed parts.

Many Thanks,
Mike

Only you will be able to answer most of your own questions, as it sounds like your truck has been customized quite a bit.

Do the wheels have a lot of backspacing, compounding the problem? What width are the wheels? A 315/70/17 is a pretty wide tire, and likely needs a rim with minimal backspacing to not interfere with any of the steering components. Pictures would help to find a solution.

I would question the axle, steering box/pitman arm, and lift kit (if indeed present) istallations, as well as wheel type. Having disk brakes on the front generally is an indication that the axle is not original to the truck, most likely it's from a '73-'87. That shouldn't really cause any issues, should actually make clearance a bit better due to the wider axle. The steering box and pitman arm could be of concern, especilly if they were not properly clocked to center before installation. You should be able to get the same number of turns lock to clock. This could be componded by a lift, especially if the steering arm/pitman arm are not compensated for.
The tires shouldn't be an issue, as a 315/70/17 is just under a 35 x 12.50 in size. I've fit that size to known stock 63-'66 4x4 trucks without clearance issues. That leaves a potential wheel backspace problem that 46gmcpu mentions. There's a very likely possability that the po might have tried to use late model style wheels, which will cause all sorts of clearance problems.

I just uploaded some photos here:
http://s1322.beta.photobucket.com/user/gtoquick/library/
Photobucket

46gmcpu -
I have not had the wheels off yet, but visually they are not deep set that would indicate a lot of backspacing to me. Please take a look at the photos if you can.

The wheels are newer aftermarket chrome wheels - Ion I believe is what the center cap says...

Longbox 55 -
You are correct, there is a slight deviation from center to lock on each side. Turning right, where the rub is, I can rotate the wheel about 2 turns. The contact with the pitman arm hits at 1 rotation of the wheel.. That leaves the left turn with about 1-1/4 wheel rotations to lock.

How is best to compensate for the lock to lock difference. I have seen a "dropped pitman arm" for sale to adjust for a lift kit.

Alright, I think I see what the problem is. The wheels are indeed for a later model truck, '88 or newer. I somewhat suspected that would be the case being a 17" wheel, as most of the 6 lug wheels available for the older trucks are 15".
The steering box/pitman arm/steering arm relationship looks pretty good. I don't think the truck has been lifted, the '60-'66 4x4s sat fairly high to begin with. The axle is definitly from a later truck, most likely a '78-'87, as it appears to be the 10 bolt with open knuckles.
Looks like the fix will be different wheels. Look for wheels with no more than a 3 1/2" backspace. If they ask for an application, use the '73-'87 K10 or K5 Blazer as the fitment.

Thank you for looking.

I would hate to have to get new wheels and tires - I bet the PO spent $2000 to $2500 on these ones.

If anyone has a modified/aftermarket pitman arm that may work, or thoughts on wheel spacers (but I would not want the wheels out much more that they already are) I am all ears.

Again, thanks for the help and comments!

You could try spacers. I'm personally not a fan of them, but it might be cheapest and most viable solution. Just eyeballing it, probably a 1-1 1/2 inch spacer should do it. Get the type that bolt on to the hub, then have their own set of studs that the wheel mounts to. Those are the safest and strongest when you get out that far. When you install them, have a helper hold the brake and torque them down, then install the wheels and torque them as well.

That's a nice pitman arm polisher you got there! I agree with LONGBOX55, if you go with spacers get the kind that have studs built into them considering the amount of clearance you need gain. Looks like a hefty amount. Going to require some serious spacers and will push the wheels out a bit. You would probably end up doing the rears too because the wheel stance is going to be different front to rear. It's a shame the PO didn't do some homework first before selecting those rims. Nice looking truck!

Messing around with the Pitman arm to get tire clearance will probably create a much more dangerous problem- - - -bump steer. Be sure and increase your life insurance coverage also. The right wheels are going to be the simplest, safest, anf probably the least expensive in the long run.
Jerry

That's definately a 73-87 front axle and steering box as well.
I can see that it is lifted by the amount of leafs on the springs.

If that truck has a 6 inch lift and still has the stock steering arm , you need to change it.
There is a special steering arm available for 73-87 chevy trucks with 6inch & higher lift kits to correct this problem. i just remembered about this.
The arm curves up higher and levels out the drag link the way its suppose to sit.

On right turns the amount of tuns from center to lock changes which doesnt allow the pitman arm to move away from the wheel.

Rancho suspension sells these& just about all the other suspension companys have them too.

Im almost positive this is your problem.

Amount of leaves? Looks like it has the standard 5 leaf front spring pack. They might be rearched a bit, but look to be the stock springs for that year truck. Also, the drag link is running paralell to the spring, geometry is good there. If there's an issue with the pitman arm, it's more likely to be improperly clocked on the pitman shaft coming out of the box, which is very easy to do.

I didnt realize that the 65's had 5 leaves.
On a 73-87 truck the standard stock spring was a 2 leaf spring & 3 leafs for heavy duty, and they were flat not arched. Same for the 67-72 trucks.
So im assuming the 60-66 trucks arn't too much different.
believe it or not,on a lift kit with this type of suspension you get more leaves up front.

I just looked at my 86, I have the same front end that is on that truck,but i have a 4 inch lift. I think its a combination of the backspacing of the wheel & the steering arm.
I noticed his wheel is a little past the backing plate compared to mine.
try another wheel & tire and see what happens.

The earlier 4x4s used the 5 leaf spring pack (6 leaf on the Napco and '57-'59 1/2 and 3/4 tons) with the arch shown. The The 2 and 3 leaf relativaly flat tapered springs were introduced with the body change in '67.

Thanks for all the help and comments guys.

I will pull a wheel off and measure the backspacing to see where these wheels are at.

Right now the truck drives nice and straight with no steering issues other than the rub, so I certainly don't want to screw any of that up.

I pulled and measured a wheel - They have 4" backspacing.

Looks like Longbox55 has a good eye as he thought a 1" wheel spacer might fix the issue.

the spring pack is not stock. if a 61 is the same as a 64/5/6. i have a 61 (all stock) and it has 6 leafs. in the pic the 3rd leaf down is not stock. also the spring pack top bolt is missing. I would say it's a centering of steering components. re-clock everything first. good luck-----

I've been working with this kind of stuff for the last 20 years, when we used to sell custom wheels, I was the official wheel fitment guy
Bergman, I do see what you mean about the looks of the 3rd leaf, it's possable that it may have been swapped, possibly with a mild re-arch, to get some extra lift. The missing bolt is also an indication that the pack has been messed with. However, according the spec manual, the 5 leaf spring pack would be standard on 1/2 ton 4x4s '60-'66. The 6 leaf spring was an option, most likely for snowplow use.
I do also agree with you on a possable clocking issue with the pitman arm, which was one thing I mentioned in my earlier post. However, the wheel backspace isue will also cause the same problem. It could very easily be a combination of the 2. Fortunatly, reclocking the pitman arm is a very easy fix, only costing a little labor, and perhaps a socket and pitman arm puller.

I did pull the pitman arm off yesterday, checked full lock left and right, measured and found the center, attempted to reinsall the pitman arm 1 tooth off and could only get it to go back in the same position as it started. I was trying to move it one or two teeth to even out the full right and left lock to lock difference.

I don't think I would have gained much clearance with a slight change to the clock position.

I will try some 1.25" wheel spacers and see if it works, and then decide if we need new wheels or not....

Thanks for all the comments!

Look at the splines on the Pitman arm and you'll see there are usually 3 or 4 wide splines that index it to the steering gear sector shaft. A sneaky trick we used to use when setting up race car steering was to take a 3-cornered file and split the wide splines so the Pitman arm would fit in any position. It helps equalize lock-to-lock centering on a modified steering system to move the Pitman a spline or two sometimes.
Jerry

longbox---thanks for the info on the 5 and 6 leafs---learn something everyday.

I received the 1.25" spacers over the weekend, installed them, and now have about 0.25" clearance with the wheel fully locked to the right.

NO more rub.