The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts WILL IT WORK? 1939 COE BODY ON CADDY FWD FRAME?

I have a 1939 Chevy 1-1/2 ton COE cab. I have been looking for the right frame/running-gear up grade to set my cab on. I got lots of different suggestions from other truck builders ranging from keeping the original frame & changing the motor/trans/suspension exc-exc-exc, to setting my cab on a newer 1 ton, 3/4 ton or 1/2 ton complete chassis. Well, using a complete newer chassis sounds like the best way for me to go. I've driven & worked on my old Chevy's all my life, but I keep them original for the most part. I'm a bit out of my league with this project, & keeping the old truck original is out of the question. She needs to be a daily driver, & I'm getting older, with more aches & pains in my body then when I was younger...
I could use some help on this one???

Here is what I found, I have a 1990 Cadillac Fleetwood V8, front wheel drive car. It drives real good. I was hoping to find some one that has used a FWD suspension for a COE, & can help me with how they did it... I also plan on making the cab A tilt cab. Laying on the ground & working on cars/trucks just doesn't work any more.
Any suggestions would really be appreciated...

I saw an Art Deco COE with a FWD 455 Olds Toronado drivetrain awhile back. The bed was a basically a really low flatbed trailer. It looked like they had grafted the Olds drivetrain to a flatbed trailer and then mounted the cab. Looked really slick and probably towed cars nicely.

Big FWD's are usually lousy in the handling department, and I believe it would take a lot more sophisticated rear suspension than the average flatbed trailer has to make it safe to drive- - - -particularly when it's carrying some serious weight like a car or a pickup. The whole concept sounds like a rolling deathtrap to me. Just because a talented welder can graft something like that together doesn't necessarily mean it should be done, or will be safe when it's finished.
Jerry

It does depend on what you want to do with it in the end, if you just want a driver without any hauling capacity a car suspension would probably be ok. The first thing that you need to do is take a tape measure to the possible donor vehicle and see if it is too wide. Most are and it will look very goofy if left alone.

I suggest finding a chevy 1/2 ton van (73-99ish)and using that chassis. it will be too wide, but you can narrow the front cradle without too much trouble, you will have to narrow the center link too. all other parts stay factory. this way you have a 'coe' steering and somewhat robust suspension but can still ride nice.

I will have to look, but there are a couple of people that have done a show and tell on narrowing the 73-87 front suspension cradle, works very well.

jason

I know you already have the caddy but if you are looking to use a fwd and have a low deck for haulling, try looking for a 70's GMC fwd motorhome. It's already set up for the weight and it had heavy duty suspension and 16" 8 bolt wheels. I believe the older ones have olds 455 engines but the late 78-80 had 454 chevy engines. I have seen it done on an old 50's Ford but cn't remeber where on the net I saw it.

Hi All; Thanks for the many replies.
I am not wanting a car hauler. My COE was a tow truck with a very short wheel base. I plan on using the tow box/bed. It was a 108" wheel base Truck. I was thinking that the FWD would help keep the motor forward enough to allow me to keep the cab floor down enough, so as not to have a big dog house taking up what little floor space I have. I am building a low rider with air bag suspension. I want the cab as low to the ground as possible. With air to pick it up to drive.
I have not purchased the Cadillac Donner as yet. It is around the corner & I plan on buying it & bringing it home next week. But I guess I need to go back & take more measurements. What ever works best, I want a complete donner. I don't want a mixed match running gear.
Please keep the comments & recommendations coming. I really don't know what I am doing with this project. But I have wanted a 39 Chevy COE for years & now is time to get started building it...
See my photos of what I have.

Some things to consider with airbags and dropping it when parked etc, you have to have the drivetrain high enough in the chassis that you don't crash any parts when fully dropped, this could get into your cab even more than usual. ideally you want a short, as in height, engine.

The caddy is a unibody, would you build a frame to mount the caddy stuff to?

The caddy or other fwd will have fwd wheels that have the offset wheels, may not be what you want, but to change them to reg wheels would goof up the geometry of the susp.

the fwd will have a rack and pinion steering that is most likely behind the engine, may be fun to rework a steering system.

i do not like it myself, but consider setting the engine back some so it is not so instrusive in the cab. you gain cab space, but loose some bed space, then you may want to cover it up too.

I keep coming back to a fullsize van chassis or even an astro van. this would be the best all in one shot donor. you won't have to completly redo steering, suspension is known and readiliy available, you can probably even buy the air suspension parts to bolt in without mods. you can get drop spindles cheap, any chevy parts are cheaper than caddy parts. it has a full frame under it to bolt and weld stuff to.

northstar engines are great until you have to fix them. the starter is under the intake manifold for example.

now the wild card idea is to put the engine in the rear like a covair pickup, any fwd power unit could be used. the northstar would be a great candidate for this. look at dune buggy sites for examples, they also use the supercharged 3.8L gmv6 alot.
you could even go oldschool and use a corvair engine.

jason

Hi Jason;
Yesterday afternoon I went to a Cadillac dealer to get more info on the caddy. The car is parked in the weeds so thick, I could not determine that it is a unibody. Now that I know that, I am scrapping the Caddy idea all together.
I just got off craigslist a moment ago, I found some one with a GM van frame with 10 lug independant front suspension. He didn't give much description, so I am waiting for him to get back to my email sent. It sounds like it must be a 1 ton or bigger chassis? Most 1/2 & 3/4 ton GM vans are uni-body's? I have not seen any GM astro vans/mini vans. They probably have a unibody also? hmmmm
I have never done a car/truck from scratch before, so I am having a hard time figuring out what all I need to take in consideration to make this work. I'm sure that a COS would be harder than most? I may need to build a chassis from scratch for it.
I have seen photos of a few 39 era COE's sitting low like I want mine. But I have not gotten any info on what they sat the cab on to get the body on the ground. I have also seen a few photos of COE's with the motor behind the cab, but I really don't want that. Having the motor/trans up front probably will take up a lot of floor space & there isn't much floor to give up. So I probably will have a big doghouse in the cab? I may not be able to avoid that?
I will give an update once I figure out what this GM chassis on Craigslist is...
Thank you for your reply

Hi,O.S.C.! It's not a '39,but on "Youtube,there's a video of a "bagged" '49-53 Chevy C.O.E. pick-up,that's set-up nicely. It appears to be rear-wheel-drive,with the engine up-front,not re-located mid-ship. If you find the video,suscribe to his site,and he may E-Mail you the details of his build. This may help in the "Do's and Don'ts,since he's been there,done that. Hope this helps. B.T.W...There's a lot of guys out there using S-10 frames,including the engine,trans.,and axles,but that is usually for the A.D. trucks. for those,there are kits available to ease the body-swap. I'm not sure how this would work on the C.O.E.'s,though. Maybe someone with a little more knowledge on the subject will jump in here. Just trying to help.

Hi! Just visited the site on "Youtube" It's titled "Chevy C.O.E." It's a '51 Chevy,mounted on a '72 G.M.C.3/4-ton frame. the guy lives in the Netherlands,but hopefully,he will submit his truck in the S.B. gallery one of these days.

A full size van with 8 lug wheels could wither be a 3/4 or 1 ton, it will have a full frame just like a pickup only with the van steering setup. The astro vans were kind of uni body, they have a subframe under the front and back, not sure what connects them together. my buddy made a jacked up 4x4 out of his but i did not spend much time looking at it, he just told me that he made new subframes and bolted them in place of the originals.
I think you are getting there, it helps to spend the time up front to compare your options and check each one out in person.

Hey,Oldschool Chevy!! I just found that video on "Youtube",(previously mentioned by jrpontiac).-Thanks,Jason!
This guy is a GENIUS!! (Sorry Jerry!) He took a tandem-axle car trailer,and fused it to a 1947,or'8 C.O.E.! He's using an ElDorado engine/trans set-up,and he's got it all tucked under the stock sheet-metal. He's got the flatbed axles still set-up for trailer-brakes! when he's ready to load,he backs-up,with the rear axles'brakes applied,until the front tandem axle is almost in contact with the rear of the cab! At that point,it appears he has air-assisted?/hydraulic ramps that lower about 8-12" to the ground,to enable a vehicle to drive right onto the flatbed! Looks like the axles operate in much the same fashion as a "roll-off" unit on a garbage truck. It looks to me that the fabricator of this rig, KNOWS what he was doing,and like Mr.Maudslay would say..."He got a clear notion of what he wanted to accomplish BEFORE he started working on his project. It appears that the "Caddy"equipment "shoe-horns under the hoods of the A.D. C.O.E.'s O.K.,but it seems that the '39 that you have may be a little narrower,making it more difficult to swap. Spanky,if you're out there,please give us your educated opinion.B.T.W...The title of that "Youtube" video is-Cabover First Load Show0.flvyoutube.com.Check this one out!!

Yes, that's an impressive buildup- - - -but I'd like to see how it handles an unexpected emergency at highway speed like dodging a lost wheel/tire assembly or a 4-foot piece of 18-wheeler tread in the middle of the lane. How about making it around a blind curve that pops up at night with no warning? Tooling along in a straight line at moderate speed is no challenge. It makes for entertaining video, but does nothing to test the directional stability.

People do really stupid things with airbags and hydraulics, too- - - -it doesn't make their projects smart, or safe.
Jerry

Hi again all;
LOL, yea I saw that YouTube video months ago & that was what first got me thinking about a front wheel drive unit for my project. Even though I'm building a short wheel base COE PU truck.
But I have scrapped the Cadillac idea, the front hubs sets back to far for my front fender well. It is also a Una-body car and it would be more work then I wanted to tackle, also a 1990 has so much computerized stuff that it would just be a headache trying to get it all hooked up in my COE. So I scrapped that idea.
But all is getting better now. I just purchased a 1980s 1+ ton GMC Van chassis with complete front independent suspension and everything else up front that I will need. It was a Very big bread truck/Van. The frame rails are the exact with as my original 39 COE frame. The steering box is in the exact same spot as my original one. The spindles seem to be in the fender the same as mine did. So I bought it Friday. The coolest thing is that he will be delivering it to me in a week or so, right after deer hunting. Saving me the hassle of figuring how to get it home. The frame rails must be over 30' long. It has very big 10 lug hub, with dis brakes. I really like the idea of the reverse wheels up front like my truck originally had.
If any one has ever seen photos of the green 1940 Chevy COE some guy in Calif. built, that is the coolest truck ever. Just type in green 1940 Chevy COE in google & it should show up.

Once I get the frame home & I'm able to get better measurements, I will give an up date. These frame rails are very big, so I should be able to set a Chevy Big block lower in the frame to help keep my cab down low to avoid a huge doghouse??? More up dates in a week or so...

that is pretty cool with the step van. you are going to have to narrow the front cross member/engine cradle to get the correct track width for the 39. also a bbc will probably be wider than the frame rails with the exhaust manifolds on.

I too like the dually offset wheels on a real truck, i think they look the best.

Hi macgyver:

I don't know what will work, but the van did have a big GMC V8 in it. I forget what size V8 the seller said it was, he had taken it out along time ago.
I don't know much about those hubs, but they are extra long, Probably for the big wide van, it was a very wide Van. They could probably be changed out for some shorter length hubs if need be?

i wish you were closer, i could show you what i am talking about much easier than trying to spell it out. do you have any pictures of the chassis yet?
If you have the hubs that i am thinking about, the extra length on them is what is needed to place the dually style wheel in the correct location. the mount needs to be farther out so that the center of the tire is where it is supposed to be so that the suspension geometry is correct. i do not think that putting single wheel hubs on it will gain you anything in trying to make the track narrower.
now remember, all of my comments are based on what i have messed with, until you actually put a tape on the parts and or set the cab over it, we won't know for sure what you are dealing with. do not get discouraged by over thinking it. like my buddy used to say to me "a little cutty cutty, weldy weldy and you're done" i always thought it was funny anyway.
i have a frt susp setting out that is out of a early 80's 1 ton chevy pickup, i may try to get a pic of it and see if i can show you what i think you will have to do.

do you know the track width of the original? or do you know the measurement from outside to outside of the frt tires?

If I'm following along so far you've picked up a 5/10 lug P30 chassis and it has dual wheels, which is good.
There are no single wheel hubs to swap. You couldn't/shouldn't run deep dished dual type wheels on single wheel front hubs anyhow as mentioned above it messes with the steering.

To come up with a front suspension narrower than what it is already you need to do some cutting and welding.

What widths are you dealing with old and new???

Grigg

I don't have any photos of the frame. I also don't have my original 1939 frame/axle any more. But I do remember measuring my original hubs, outside to outside & checking them against my 3/4 ton 1990 Suburban & they were the same. But I don't have the suburban any more either "LOL" so that won't help. My 39 was 1-1/2 ton with 5 lug reverse wheels on front & 10 lug rear duals. This van is 10 lug front & 10 on back duals. Rear End is gone on this frame, just the leaf springs on rear.
I won't be getting discouraged on this project. It is going forward one way or another. I think this big Van frame will work, but if I need to re-work it, or scrap it & go another rout, that's OK to. I paid $175 for this frame.
Extra nice thing is, he took everything off the chassis except the parts I will need "firewall-dash & front floor" which has the steering column & master cylinder with all brake lines & peddles. Rear leafs also, but I'm not sure weather I will use the rear springs yet. My mind is on the front suspension at this point. "O" I forgot to mention that it also has the Vin plate & registration.
I won't know any thing else till I get it home. We are shooting for next weekend.
Thank you all for all your helpful comments & support. I will keep you up dated as soon as I get it home...


If it's not a Chevy, it's just transportation.

Hi All:
Here is an update on the frame I purchased for my 1939 COE.
I have the frame home now. It was a 1980 GMC Van. The registration does not say what size it was, but I'm sure it was a 1 ton? Heavy springs, extra heavy stabilizer bar & huge brakes up front, & huge rear leaf springs with overload leaf on rear. The Rear springs are there but no rear end. It was a potato chip or bread Van? I was worried that the front hubs would be to wide, but it looks like they will be perfect for my fenders. The front hubs are 8 lug, not 10 as I thought.
Everything seems perfect for my application. The frame width is the same as my original 39 frame, so my original 1939 body mounts will bolt right to this newer frame. all the wiring, bumper to bumper is there. Fuel tank/fuel line is still on the frame also. The complete brake system is also intact. The steering box is in the same spot on this frame as my original steering. The master cylinder is on the firewall with hanging brake peddle all in one, with All brake lines to front & rear are there also. Frame is 20= foot long, so it will need shortened. Front is disk brakes & shocks are on brackets outside the A arms, so it should be easy to replace the coils with air bags.
So far I can't find anything on this frame that will need modified for my application.

Sounds like an 8 lug independent front P-30 chassis, minus the 14 bolt rear.
That's encouraging that it looks like a good swap for the 39!

Grigg

It's been months now since an update, so here's where I am with my 39 Chevy COE project.
The P30 frame is great. I have the front air bags in & holding air. I found a Ford 1 ton dully rear end with 354 gears. I boxed & C notched the rear frame so the frame will be level when air bags are empty. I shortened the frame & I have a 4 link rear suspension with air bags in place. All on 16" dully wheels with 215/60R16" tires. The small tires look rear good in the front fenders. I sat a small block 305 Chev. motor & a 700R 4 speed trans in the frame for mock up. The motor is sitting far back under the cab & lowered enough to be under the floor even though the cab is about 6" lower to the frame than originally. There will be a short doghouse between or under the seat for the carb & distributor, depending whether I decide on a bench seat or buckets? I am making it a tilt cab. So I have the cab sitting on a sub frame, much lower than the original stilts the cab sat on originally. So far, so good. That's were it sits now.
I found a set of Freightliner tilt cab hydraulic rams & cab jack, so now it is time to add hinges to the sub frame & get the cab to tilt. I have a long way to go, but it is starting to look like everything is going to work out.
As of now the running boards sit 3" off the ground, but I can see were I will get two more inched lower. I plan on having it sit 1" off the ground when bags are empty, just for safety. around 6to7" driving height.
..........some day..............