The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop hard oil lines to bypass filter questions

Need some help from the collective...

I refinished an oil filter and first installed it behind the manifold. But it is a very tight fit with the steering column, so I move it forward.

As you can see in my photo, the feed line in on the left hand side of the canister. This extra distance makes it unreachable with the 18" and 22" flexable lines vendors sell.

My thought was to go with hard lines, bend and flare myself and be done with it.

I've had 3 false starts to this process so far. I THINK I need to use 1/8" line. I can't seem to locate this easily.

Second problem is, once I have the line, do I use compression fitting, or do I flare the line?

I'm not sure what the fittings are called that go in to the filter either, or their size. The elbow connector seems to reduce the size.

Advice or tips?

Mark

I would suggest 3/16" with compression fittings. Examples:

1.
2.
3.

I went to a local hose building shop and brought the old one with me and had them make one a little longer than the one I had it cost around 15.00.That way you get the fitting on one end that you can tighten to the 90 degree fitting out of the filter.

Pete

Could I just use 3/16" brake line?

Yup.

I'd recommend 1/4" as I think it will look better, 3/16" is probably fine though.

I'd use inverted flare fittings same as brake lines. I'm not a big fan of compression fittings.

Either use normal brake lines, flares and all if you don't want to flare line yourself. Or I really like Copper Nickel line, it's exceptionally easy to work with and corrosion resistant, better than stainless in both areas. Try part number CNC-425 at Auto Zone or Advance, others too I'm sure.

For fittings look at this Weatherhead catalog, get them off the shelf or order them at NAPA or a hose shop.
http://eatonsite.com/HydPLL/pdfs/E-BRFI-MC001-E4.pdf
Pages 36-40

I think all the NPT fittings/holes you're dealing with in the block and filter canister are 1/8".

Here's an example of what you can do with what I've just mentioned; an oil line, and I've done numerous air and fuel lines the same way as well.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2888151120080251109tpIKCi

Grigg

Grigg - I'm all about the looks! What's the reasoning for 1/4" looking better than 3/16"? Beefier?

I used brake lines and a combination of flare and compression fittings, to match the other fittings involved. The one thing I didn't plan for is being able to put a container underneath when draining. The flexible lines would make this a breeze but with my setup I have to squeeze a plastic container in underneath. Better planning would have helped.

It's closer to the outside diameter of the rubber lines you're expecting to see there.
Knowing what the lines are for I think 5/16" is way overkill, so that would look weird to me.
And third you said you have some distance to run them and 3/16" lines may look flimsy and or need more support than 1/4" lines.

You did ask...

Grigg

Don't know where I got 3/16" from??? All my examples are 1/4" line and look good proportionally to me.

I tried to view your photo but it want's me to sign up to view it.

https://picasaweb.google.com/113636046886857960240/New235#5763721558149727810

Anyone else have that issue?

Yes I did - and that's why I'll go with 1/4" lines.
Thanks!

I used braided metal sheathed flexible fuel lines to connect my filter. Looks very cool, at least I think so. Available in all sorts of lengths. I have had these on there about 25 years.

Picture.

Kurt

Mark,
I have had decent experience with Kirouac Fluid Industries in Ottawa making custom length/fittings brake flex hoses. 613-742-8593. They claim to be able to get pretty much any fitting made and be able to make whatever length. I don't know if they have the restrictor fittings for the bypass filters.
I've been told that similar service should be available from Diotte's Hydraulics. I'm not sure who does the same type of work in the West end if these are inconvenient for you.

I used polished copper, with compression fittings. Compression fittings work on 10,000 psi hydraulic systems, probably will work on 30 psi engine oil system I figure.

Thanks for the info Grant, I might just use them for the hydraulic hoses I need made for the rams on the dump bed.

However I'm partial to the look of the hard lines - I think I'm going to give them a try first.

Brokenhead, do you have pics of your setup? Curious to see how the polished copper looks under the hood.

A line more than 2 feet long will last longer if secured to the engine (or engine-mounted accessory) with Adel clips.
Really long lines should include a vibration loop.

Copper while it may work fine for a while is not the best when it comes to vibration, it can/will fatigue crack more readily than your other options.

I'd use either normal steel brake line (cheap)
Or Copper Nickel line is what I perfer.

Grigg

Panic - I had to google "Adel clips" to what the heck they were -

I'm having a hard time understanding how that chunky singer from the UK will help my lines!

(I've since googled Adel Clamps and got better results!)

Question, for a full flow filter system like the one used on the 261 what diameter steel line would work? Would 3/8" be big enough?

Still, probably has to do with permissions. It's saying I have to register with picasa to view it.

What size are the old hoses on the 261?

1/2" NPT for factory full-flow filter, 1958-1963 USA 261.

The original lines were flexible and there was an ~8" metal stand-off tube from the block, probably to assure clearance past the exhaust pipe. Illustration from a Shop Manual

1/2" NPT on the block doesn't always equate to a 1/2" ID hose. Often the NPT size is less than the hose used.
Even so I would guess 1/2" or 5/8" is the correct tube/hose size for the full flow filters. (for sure not 3/8", to much restriction)

Anyone have one to measure?

Grigg

Flexible oil and hydraulic lines are generally measured in 1/16" increments, so a #8 line would be 8/16 or 1/2" inside diameter. I'd consider a 1/2" ID to be a minimum to assure adequate flow through a full-flow filter. We used dual filters in parallel and 3/4" lines on the dry sump oil systems of round track race engines to minimize pressure drop across the filters.
Jerry

Thanks one and all for the input. The rigid portion of the stock line is 1/2" ID, the flex portion is about the same. I thought if I were to relocate the canister to the front of the manifold it might be alright to use 3/8" steel (brake line) tubing but I sure don't want to starve the motor for oil so I'll have to look into larger diameter bendable tubing for the project.

-Mike-

Be sure to include some S-shaped bends somewhere if you go with hard lines. Running them too directly from the block to the filter can result in lines cracking near the end fittings due to vibration unless some flexibility is built into them. A 360 degree loop is even better than an S shape.
Jerry

When you buy hard line, steel, copper-nickel, stainless... they'll be listed by the Outside Diameter.
~1/2" ID is probably going to be 5/8" OD.

I think copper coiled tube is listed by the ID and has a larger OD... that's confusing, Not at all recommending you use copper.

3/8 NPT is about .545" ID, 1/2 NPT is about .674" ID.

Not necessarily. NPT size definitions do not refer to a physical dimension which always confuses my new apprentices. For example a 1/2" male NPT thread on a pipe will have the following inside diameter based on pipe schedule:

schedule 10 = .674" I.D. (.083" wall)

schedule 40 = .622" I.D. (.109" wall)

schedule 80 = .546" I.D. (.147" wall)

schedule 160 = .466" I.D. (.187" wall)

Thought I would post the finished product - It was late by the time I finished, so I had to backlight my pics, hence the darkness...

I ended up using 1/4" coated brake line. I bout one long 60" piece and two extra inverted flare nuts. This way I only have to flare two ends of line.

I mocked up the lines using coat hanger.
<Mock Up>

I used string to measure out the length of each mockup, cut the string to match and used it to cut my brake line.

After that, about 6 bends later, and two flares - I was done.

<Installed 1>

<Lower End>

<Side View>

I filled up the filter with oil for the first time since refinishing it and started up the engine for the first time with a filter! I watched the oil pressure closely, it went up to 30 pretty fast.

Thanks for all the suggestions, I'm very happy with the result.

Mark

Looks very nice.

very nice work!

just wondering why you went with the coated line?

Thanks Gus,

The photo is misleading - there's almost 1 1/2" of space between the line and the exhaust pipe.

It's another reason I went with the hardline over the rubber line. With this "car filter", the line had to pass by the exhaust, at least with the hard line, it won't fall against it.

No special reason for going with coated other than corrosion resistance... plus the dark grayish color matched the block!

Looks like you figured it out and it looks nice!

If I may suggest next time buy another few standard tube nuts and save the extra long ones that come on the pre-made line for an application that needs them extra long.

Grigg

The store didn't have any of the standard length left! I was looking for them.

While on that subject, I never really understood why preflared lines I buy have one long tube nut and one short...

The long nut makes it easier to reach when it's used at a wheel cylinder. Some of them are recessed into a very tight spot in a brake backing plate.
Jerry

Some wheel cylinders have that much thread depth to them, if you used a standard/short tube nut it wouldn't even seat before bottoming out on the hex.

I will also be doing this shortly on my 261. I was thinking about bending small coils/loops to make the hard line more "flexable", Do you guys think this would be ok?