The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk Please help

I have posted a few times and gotten some great responses and I am hoping for the same here. No matter which way I take my project I am going to do it right, learning as I go, complete frame off restore. That being said, both time and money are a huge factor as of right now. I'm obviously not talking weeks and I am not rushed, I just want to drive this baby. This will be a daily driver, not to offend anyone but I just don't have the money to spend thousands on a beautiful piece of work that sits under a cover in a garage. Maybe one day?

So...all personal preferences aside, i am debating a complete restore or a v8 mod with an s-10 chassis underneath and want to know which is best for the following.....

Total value after restore is compete
Total time it took to do the restore
Total headaches caused along the way
Total money spent restoring the truck.

Again I am not planning on selling this truck once it is finished but it would be nice to get an idea of what it would be worth at the end.

Here are pics of my truck. Bought it off a high school buddy for $200 and his great grandma bought it new in 1954

http://photobucket.com/1954chevy5window3100

how much someone else might pay for it is an impossible question, obviously depends on what it turns into, what the "market" is like when that time comes, and what your estate will settle for .... don't think about final sale value, think about what it'll be worth to you to own and drive, then get on with spending what's required as you have it to spend

the more you change it, the more it'll cost and the greater the headaches and time involved .... are you a good mechanic? good welder? good bodyman? hiring every thing done on a tight budget will result in a basket case for sale long before it's done .... get it functional and see how you feel about driving yesteryears work machines before getting into designing your own vehicle, cheaper to buy an S10 than build one

Bill

Hy Danthemanmj23, your questions are a bit confusing, do you want a daily driver, a restored truck, or a hotrodded truck.
The value of the completed vehicle depends on what you build, a stock restoration or a hot rod.
The time it takes is dependant on how well and complete you do the job, restoration or hot rod.
The headaches of a restoration are in my opinion easier to solve because you have research material to access to verify how it should be. When you hotrod a vehicle you are blazing a new trail, and it all depends on what components you choose to use and how many changes from the original design you choose to make.
The money invested, again is dependant on which direction you choose to go and how meticulous you want to be with the work.
Your truck is somewhat rare, with only one and a half years of production, personally I would not hotrod it. I would repair all the mechanicals, possibly find a 261, and a hydramatic for it, and probably a higher speed set of rear axle gears for it. Ultimately the truck is only worth what someone will pay for it, just my opinion, hope it helps.

Sorry for the vague questions and thank you for the responses. I am wanting a daily driver. Wether that take me the v8 route or stock, that is the ultimate question. I understand my truck is on the rarer side and that has made me lean toward a restore with a few upgrades ie front breaks, possible engine, transmission, and rear end.

Do you know what the average(again I know every one is different) cost is with a frame off restore? Just planning foor the future.

Thanks again

there is little chance you will ever get your money back out of it, because you will spend plenty. It most decidedly isn't an INVESTMENT like a shelby cobra or something. I see no reason to ruin a collectible classic, by cutting it all up. If you are going to do all that to it, buy one of the replicas. Because if you completely gut the thing, then apparently you don't really want a 54 chevy pickup. You just want something that looks like one, hence my suggestion you just get a replica. Regardless of which way you go, you are going to spend a lot of money, and even with a stock engine these get terrible gas mileage for use as a daily driver. They make great toys.

There is much truth (all truth) in brokenhead's post.

If you really want an inexpensive, comfortable, and reliable daily driver, buy a newer used truck.

These old trucks are usually not a good investment - a person does not make a good "investment" in an asset that most probably won't sell for a profit. The "average gain" of selling a "frame off" restore is a negative number. This depends on how much you have to put into the vehicle, how much of the work you can do yourself (unpaid), and how much you can sell it for.

Your truck is relatively rare - not rare enough to make it valuable as a "collector vehicle". Usually owning one of these old trucks is a hobby.

You state a lot of motivations and desires.

You want to control cost but you might want upgrades (brakes, engine, transmission, rear-end)? You might want to keep it close to stock and you might not. You want to "do it right", but time and money are important factors. These are all logical/practical things to consider.

If you just want a safely drivable and relatively desirable vehicle, just repair what you have. If a major part goes bad, or a major system needs to be replaced/ repaired, then you could do a cost-comparison regarding repairing/replacing/modifying.

A piece of advice that's given here quite often, and Tim alluded to it, is, first of all, get it running and driveable-fix what you have so it's safe to take it on the road. Then, after you've driven it awhile, you'll have a feel for it and have a better idea what, if any, upgrades you may or may not want to do.

Some paople like the way and old truck drives and handles. The next guy would rather be in a brand new car. Wherever you're at, you'll have a better idea what your plan should be after you've driven your truck for a while.

just my 2 cents, You look to be on the younger side. So as I do,you like the look of the truck just want to update it.Some advise here is good,some is just opinion as is mine. the old timers will hammer you about keeping it stock. Now my guess is you are not interested in that route.Either way it will cost you big dollars to do it correct. So one thing that is good advise is to get it running as is.Like mentioned before get the brakes,steering, and motor in top notch shape.Get it safe to drive and then go from there.But most of all get a plan!! I started with s-10 idea, bought an expensive s-10 conversion kit (sitting in storage) Then decided to go with original frame with mustang 2 ifs, 4 link rear end. My truck is built for my pleasure not interested in the (sale) value when I'm done. But one thing for sure you wont get out of it what you put into it.(dollar wise anyway)But making it yours how you want it is priceless !!! Get info here,then plan your build, price out everything new this will get you in the ballpark then you can save a bit by trading,swap meets,used parts, scrap yards etc...good luck !!

Hi Dan, Since you live in SLC, ask if someone near you has a stock truck that you could take a ride in or even drive. Assuming you have limited exposure to these old trucks it might either change your mind or strenghten your resolve.
These trucks (stock) are slow, rough riding, thirsty,and noisy as compared to modern trucks. A LOT of money and time is essential to make them enjoyable as a DD; unless you have a special connection to that era, you may soon grow tired of a stock truck. Modernizing it very quickly becomes expensive-- drop into a hot rod shop and ask about the cost of some of their projects--
I'm not meaning to discourage you, I just want you to have more input regarding your decisions about your truck.
The guys here are great sources of info-- ask a lot of questions while you work on your baby.
Welcome to the group & good luck, whatever you decide.

on the lighter side, i use a 1ton 52 as a DD or my 46 plymouth(4doors+2 kids and wife and AC) but mine are far from stock. frame off on both of them. about $6,000 into the truck and $9,000 into the car not counting labor. (FULL disclosure: i own a one man restoration buisiness and can do a frame off in about 3-4 months.)
even a modified one is not a new, modern truck. you have to like driving "old" to enjoy it.

daren

If you are wanting to modify with a V8 you will want a new tranny and rear-end. All that can be expensive. The cheapest way to get there is to visit all the car shows and swap meets and find a project that someone gave up on that has the engine front, suspension, tranny and rear-end and suspension installed. Either way the best approach is to treat it as a hobby until you finish.

Whew a lot of good advice. I know what Jim is saying about getting one someone gave up on but be careful. Lots of those projects have to be "re-done to be right".

Here is my two-cent. Since its a family heirloom perhaps you plan on keeping it and passing it down?? From the picture it appears to need some body work but otherwise pretty striaght and solid. If you plan to keep it then please, like building a house, get the foundation right to start with. Since its not running take the body off and clean and so the chassis/brakes/driveline and possibly engine. You can put the labor into it yourself using still wire brushes on the frame instead of sand blasting ect and come out with a nice job. Do all you can at this stage towards your disired end results and that may change as you go along and thats OK. Use swap meets and the swap meet here on the bolt for parts. I personally like the front straight axle and they can be fixed many ways. Even after a restoration putting power steering on a straight axle is not that hard and neither is disc brakes. Something you can do as projects later on as you drive the truck. In todays world a higher gear is MUCH desired. Lot of ways to go here to...depending on tranny and engine.

My 1937 pickup. Drug it home in 1994. It was in pretty bad shape but after five years and almost 20,000 I drove it for the first time in June 2000. V8, powersteering, malibu rearend, mustang II frontend from an original mustang. NO A/C...... now get this, my rearend was given to me, my brother built the engine for the cost of parts at his machine shop, my daughter/son in law gave me the tires and a friend built me a 350 tranny for a favor I did for him.(later switched to 700R4) Still, 20 grand invested (in 2000 dollars) and lots of time. I tried to keep it at least looking original. Do I enjoy it..oh,heii yes!!

1952 Panel....purchased Sept 2005. Began work on it summer 2006 and drove it first time Spring of this year 2012. V/8, power steering with straight axle, open drive line by putting in 56 pumpkin, 350 tranny. I've kept it at least "looking orignal. Its my "resto-rod" So far the cost is just under 19,000 with about 3500 more to go as I must have A/C in this thing. Here I found bargains and tons of help from bolters. (see photobucket below on the panel to see how bad it was)

I'm not saying all that to brag but sometimes folks are a little hesitant to speak moo-la here. Mine is just bare facts and I"m sure some guys have less and some a lot more than me.

***If the engine in your truck will run good then get it running and stopping and go from there making it many small projects. A lot will hinge on that alone.

Good luck, AND remember, Brad Allen is a bolter and has parted out many trucks and lives in SLC. Maybe meet up with him, look at his truck frist hand....and by all means take your time in deciding as you will be much happier.
We're all here to help and we need young guys like you to help keep this old hobby going strong....whew, I'm tired or typing.

Alvin's right on the money, literally! You better decide what you can afford and make a budget. Many a project has crashed due to lack of funds. No funds, no fun.

It depends completely on your personal preference and how you plan to use the truck. If you need to drive on the highway every day, don't plan on a restored truck going 60 or 70 MPH.

My personal preference is modified, as I put 3-5000 KM on my vehicles each year. I need to have something that drives and handles well at highway speed, and doesn't need a lot of tinkering. The 47-55 trucks fit well on an S-10 frame, but you definitely need some fabrication skills.

If you can't do the work yourself for either option, plan to spend $20-50K, Minimum.

I can do all the work myself on my project, and am currently working on a 46 GMC that I'll have under $5000 in when complete.

To answer your questions, here are my opinions from what I've seen:

Total value after restore is compete: A modified truck completed to the same stage and quality (paint, suspension, etc), is almost always worth more than its restored version. There is also a bigger market for a modified truck, if you chose to sell it.

Total time it took to do the restore: Dependent on how far you want to go and your skill level. If you're a good fabricator, an S-10 frame swap is much quicker than a restoration (my dad and I did his '52 Chevy including paint in 4 months.
Total headaches caused along the way: Dependent on the starting condition of the truck and any parts you plan to use. Also dependent on your skill level. From this side it's probably easier to do a restoration, as everything has a place already.
Total money spent restoring the truck.: Again, dependent on your skill level, how much of the parts needed you can get used, and what you plan to do with it.


As has been said, ultimately you need to decide what you want. An old truck with a modern frame is still different to drive. However, my motivations for going that route are to have something I can cruise down the highway at 60-80 MPH, and take on a 1000 KM trip with no problems. The S-10 frame route gives you good suspension and brakes, and the front and rear suspension and brakes are designed to work together, not mis-matched as they are if you put in a front clip and whatever rear suspension you can muster. If you need to go to the parts store for chassis parts, you buy S-10 parts, instead of trying to remember what part came from what car.

On this site you're guaranteed to get a lot of people telling you to keep it stock, but ultimately it's up to you. I love old cars and trucks, but would not own a stock one that can't do highway speeds safely.

Practical side the way I see it.
Simply put: Buy a late model to drive daily so you can spend the money when you have the time, and then you have something to drive to the parts store too.

My Suburban with stock suspension and stock 248 six will drive 70 mph all day long. The tranny has been changed to an SM319 OD. I have power brakes with discs on front. I have taken several 1000-2000 mile trips in it. You don't have to have a modern frame and a V8 engine to make a driver out of an old truck.

That's true, but it's a lot more comforting if you do. Just giving my opinion.

Mine are modified because of what I started with....but AMEN Cletis.

comfort yes, but not as much fun.. wish I had by 52 truck back,
I would drive that sucker any where, stock susp, no heat, no air,
no power, just a good radio...lol

Charley has a nice 56 too, he drove that sucker ever where..if he wanted comfort, he would probably buy a Beemer..lol

my suggestion would be as others have said, get it running good and safe... you might want to just keep it as is.

Wow I love this site. So many great suggestions and tips. It's funny as I read down this list I agree with one post keeping it stock but then the next post changes my mind to hot rod it lol. All of this has been so helpful and I am going to soon take my trip to Colorado to pick up my truck (maybe she will whisper what she wants )so I will have a lot of thinking time. I'm sure I'll post again as soon as I decide and that's when the questions will start pooring out. Thank you all for your support! I think I will take the general concesus and get it up and running(and stopping) and go from there. More to come...

If I were you,and wanted a reliable daily driver,I'd order the catalog from Patrick's Antique Cars and Trucks. They specialize in "our" 235,and 261's. They also have a section for our G.M.C. "brothers",covering complete rebuilding kits for the 270,and the 302. They also carry transmission and rear-end kits,for CHEAPER than you could buy an S-10 for. This way,you only need to invest in one vehicle,and not worry what to do when the neighbors complain about having a truck in pieces sitting next door. And the tranny is designed to bolt right up to your stock "six"! Several Great vendors though! I've dealt with Jim Carter,Patrick's,L.M.C. to name a few, as well as several fellow "Bolters"that I've bought parts from. For performance and reliability,I'd go stock. To save a buck,I'd go stock..as well as headaches of not figuring on something,when patching two trucks together. (wow-that don't fit too good). Been there, done that. I'm sticking to stock, myself. I'm gettin' older. "Take the path of least resistance" Good-luck,no matter which way you decide to go.B.T.W.,I've got 6500 dollars in mine right now,and its a '55 2nd 6500! Yeah,2-ton! It's not near done yet. It needs more body-work,but I painted it anyway just to keep it from rusting. I probably wouldn't get 1/2 of that for "her today,BUT then again,I wouldn't sell "her for less than $12,000! Yep! NOT For Sale! The more you work on them,the more you love 'em! "Keep on Truckin'"!

In looking at Barret Jackson, Mecum and several other auction shows over the past 8-10 years, I have noticed that the prices generally seem to be about the same for restored vs hotrod when it comes to the AD trucks. Now, there is always an exception, one or two will blow the top off the bidding. My advise, and it's just that, is do what makes YOU happy. When it's all done we will all praise your fine work no matter what. Good luck!

True, but the restored that bring those $$$ have matching numbers, something a bit difficult to come by in an old truck.

I never consider Barrett Jackson and other sensationalist TV auctions to be an accurate measure of actual vehicle value. I agree with do what makes you happy though.

I paid $100 for my S-10 frame, already stripped, and had another truck for parts for $100. If you can buy a motor and transmission kit for $200, you better go with it.

What do you mean by matching numbers?

Engine, tranny, differential, etc.

There are no "matching numbers" on these trucks.

About as close as you will get to having matching numbers (numbers matching) is correct casting codes for that year, and an engine serial number for that year and model of truck. This is not the same as when collectors talk about matching numbers/codes for a vehicle where some or all the codes are unique to the vehicle (or, for a vehicle where the manufacturer keeps/kept or published/published a book of official codes for a specific VID/VIN).

For our trucks, any date casting codes, if available (body, engine, head, block, transmission, rear-end), should be in proper sequence. If the VID (cab/body/frame ID/serial-number) has a date (usually on a plate on our trucks) that date should be a newer date than the date on an engine, transmission or rear-end (they would have to have been made before the truck was assembled).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_matching

http://www.lasvegasclassiccars.com/language.php#1