The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts Wheels??? 1954 GMC Fuel Truck with auto..Opinions?

Hey all,

I'm looking at a heavy GMC truck. I'm new to the BIG trucks so I have two questions for the seasoned veterans / gurus.

1. Check out these wheels and tell me what their story is. Are they desirable or dangerous.

[IMG]http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu183/tazzeller/KGrHqZHJFEE-ko8eGBiBPwqGuZJ8Q48_20.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu183/tazzeller/KGrHqFHJCEE-lQT8EmTBPwqGqTLm48_20.jpg[/IMG]

2. Are the fenders on this truck extra wide or is it just the angle of the camera and my lack of experience that makes them look that way to me.


Unfortunately I have not seen the truck in person yet and am deciding my level of interest in a trip to go see it based on these pictures and the sellers description of it as a truck with an automatic that runs great.

Any information or opinions on this truck would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Greg

Hey,

Got two more pictures:

[IMG]http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu183/tazzeller/KGrHqRHJBIE-elF-K8gBPwqGlWwKw48_20.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu183/tazzeller/KGrHqJHJEUE-kFi6WZDBPwqGf8k9g48_20.jpg[/IMG]


I am not interested in a tanker body. Is this something I should be expect to be able to sell? Is it something that will turn into a nightmare to own due to environmental disposal concerns?

Again... any insights or opinions are welcomed.

Thanks,
Greg

A close-up of a front wheel would help. It looks like you have one of the "safer" wheel designs with a split outer ring, not the dangerous ones that come apart in the middle of the wheel. The bead ring will be facing toward the inside on the rear duals, so a close up shot of the rear wheel won't help identify the design. You've got the Dayton-style open-center wheels that will have a spacer ring between the rear duals. Different thickness spacers are available for different tread width tires to keep the sidewalls from touching each other.

The fenders and hood, and also the grill are wider on the 1 1/2 ton and bigger trucks to accomodate the larger diameter wheels and a wider track width on the heavier-capacity front axle.
Jerry

Thanks Jerry,

Unfortunately, these are the only pictures I have.

If you look closely, they seem to have six large lug nuts around the outside of the rim.

They don't look anything like the wheels on My COE, or the Grain truck I bought which has the lug nuts near the center:

[IMG]http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu183/tazzeller/1951COE.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu183/tazzeller/1950sGrainTruck6.jpg[/IMG]

Hummmm...

Ok... I searched Dayton wheels as Jerry said. This seems to me to be what I have. I have never seen this style of wheel before this truck. Is this because this fuel truck is the largest / heaviest big bolt I have ever seen?

Also, if this is what I have... are these wheels desirable to have?

I'm hoping to get as much of a wheel education as I can before I look at the truck.

Finally... As Jerry said the fenders are larger on the 1 1/2 ton and up as compared to the 1/2 and 1 ton trucks. But are the fenders on this fuel truck even larger than the 1 1/2 ton trucks? I know the largest of the GMC COE trucks had wider fenders. Is this also true on trucks like this?

Keep the opinions coming

Thanks,
Greg

That's either a 400 series 2 1/2 ton, 450 series 3 ton, or 470 series 3 1/2 ton, with factory option Dayton wheels. I'd jump all over that one if I found it. The fenders on the 400, 450, & 470 series GMC trucks are larger than on the 300 series 1 1/2 ton, & 350 series 2 ton trucks. Also the 1954/'55 1st series "400" series trucks have two separate windshield wiper motors mounted above the windshield. And since the fenders are larger the '54/'55 "400" series trucks didn't use the square park lights, & fancy grille surround that the smaller trucks used. That truck should also have a 302ci. engine in it, if it's a 450, or 470 series.

Thanks for the info, Spanky.

I thought the front on this truck looked larger.

The farm it is on has had it for 'a couple of generations' and they aren't sure if they can find a registration for it (which may make it hard / impossible to register). I may buy it anyway and swap all the sheet metal over to another GMC I have a title for. If I go this route, will I end up stuck with the rolling chassis, or would there be any interest in these parts?

As usual... any opinions?

Spanky and Jerry know a lot more about these trucks than I do but I would think that is a fairly rare truck. Plus its all there and in good shape judging from the pictures. If it were me, I would keep it together, maybe ditch the fuel tank if that's not what you want but the rest of it leave as is. Can't you apply for a replacement title or register and antique with a bill of sale? Love the daytons too. There is nothing wrong with them.
Good find.

Bill, that is indeed a "Rare" truck. You don't find those "400" series trucks that often. In all the years that i've collected COE's, i've only ever found one 450, or 470 series GMC COE, on the East Coast. They always seem to show up out West, when they do show up. My 1952 470 series COE came out of Washington State.

Greg,

I know almost nothing about those big GMC trucks. However, the word "auto" in the title of this thread piqued my curiosity. Does it have a hydra-matic transmission emblem on both sides of the hood? If it does, can you post pictures of the gear indicator/selector?

There were some exotic hydra-matic options in 54/55.

Tim,

Yes, it has the factory Automatic transmission. I'm afraid I don't have any more pictures of it but the seller says it has an automatic. It surprises me that such a heavy truck would have an automatic.

I find this truck very interesting.

The Hydra-Matic was even used in some later model GMC over-the-road tractors with the Pontiac V-8 in them. One torque-splitter version actually used two transmissions, one inverted above the other, with a special valve body that synchronized the shifting of both boxes simultaneously. The old 4-speed HydraMatic was also used in WW II military trucks and one version of a light tank with a Cadillac V-8 engine. My father's main competitor in the automatic transmission business in Nashville Tennessee in the very early 1950's was an ex tank mechanic who got his transmission training from the Army. They were the only two people in town who would work on automatics.
Jerry

Very cool truck,Greg!
If you want to get rid of the tanker body,you'll need to learn what was carried in it last,is there anything in it now,is it a leaker,etc. Once you know these things,you can decide whether to sell the tank to a rancher or Construction Co. (if it's solid and clean inside) or cut it up and scrap it (if it's not full of explosive vapors). If it was last used to haul fuel,it can still be flushed and ventilated enough to be safe to cut on.
As for the wheels,Daytons are a good set up;if you have 20" wheels,you can upgrade to 22",they fit the same hubs. Regarding the safety subject,I've never seen a "widowmaker" Dayton wheel,I don't think they exist. These wheels rely on a smooth rim center to slide over the hubs,so a center-split wheel couldn't work on a Dayton set up. I could be wrong...
I'll be interested to see what drivetrain this truck has;should have a 302 (If it has a two barrel carb but otherwise looks like a 228-270,it's probably a 302-I think the BIG sixes have the carb and manifolds on the right side of the engine,and look much bigger than the 228-302.
Whatever happens,don't let that truck slip away from you!
Speed

Gregger,

There was a 21 speed Hydra-Matic (that HrL refers to above) that was available in late in 1955 in GMC big trucks (I do not know if it was available for Z-series 54/55 GMCs). I have only seen it in a manual. It would be interesting to see any version of that Twin Hydra-Matic.

The 302 engine mentioned above looks a lot like the 248 and 270 engines that were more common, especially on smaller trucks. I think that the 248 was standard on small 54/55 GMCs (its production ended in 1955), with 270s and 302s more common on larger trucks (the 302 might have been standard on late 55 Blue Chip 450 and 500 series GMCs).

The engine serial number, just to the rear of where the distributor enters the the block, starts with the engine size (often with a letter before that number).

Hi Greg,
If the tires are bad on the truck I have a set of the Dayton rims with decent tires you can have if you pay shipping and handling. They will be good enough to drive the truck for a few years or until you want to upgrade to tubeless 22.5's. I've shipped pallets to Calgary for about $200.00 through Van Kam. The rims I have are 20", here's some photos. make sure yours are 20" the Daytons also come in a 22" split rim.

I don't think it is all that hard to get a registration for the truck, talk to the motor vehicle branch and see what they say. I know others that have done it and they tell me it's no big deal as long as the truck is not stolen or from out of province. There is of course, a fee to be paid.

Bill

Hey Greengrass, what happened to that truck? Do you have the body or did it get scrapped? Those big gmc's look pretty cool when they are made into a big ol'4x4

Nate

Hi Nate,
I just got the truck this Spring, I'm going to be cleaning it up some and putting on a flatdeck. My plans are for a more detailed restoration in the future.

Hi, Dont Know if this has been answered, but if you bought a Truck with Those Dayton Spoke rims, is it easy to Buy Budd Style or Modern Wheels rims that will work on that truck if you dont want to use the daytons right now?

Hy Cal78, swapping from Dayton wheels to Budd wheels can be a very involved process. Different brake drums, hubs, and possibly axles are required on the rear, and drums and wheel adapters/hubs are required for the front axle as well. As has been mentioned you should be able to find 22.5" rims to fit your Dayton wheels, hope that helps.

I'm not sure about the laws in your country, but it would be difficult to dispose of here. It was born a 4 compartment gasoline tank wagon and it probably hauled leaded gasoline all of its useful life. I doubt that the axles from a the GMC would fit the Chev. The Hydra transmissions were rather common in tank wagons. If its working, it would be fine. If you have to go into it, it would be an expensive ordeal. The open centered wheels pictured are generically called Dayton. They were probably built by Erie or Webb because of the 6 spokes on the the steering axle. The dangerous Firestone RH5° were never built for open center hubs. The GMC would be an interesting project because I grew up in a tank wagon. But if you are interested in it for parts for the COE, I think you will have trouble with the steering axle. The drive axle can be easily be made to fit because both trucks use a 34" frame. The steering axle might work of you use 6" wide rims. That would gain you clearance on the inside. However if the tread is wider on the GMC axle, it would be a real challenge to keep the tires from rubbing the narrow fenders.

I think that is a 400 or 450 series, my 470 has more axle studs on the rearend. That one appears to have 8 like my 450. Those daytons are fine and pretty stylish as far as daytons go, especially the fronts. You can mount modern 22.5 radials on those hubs with the proper rims.

Some scrap yards won't take a fuel tank, however, since it is so nice-someone else is sure to want it for their original restoration. In general, it is sort of scary to torch a fuel tank, unless it is full of water first, a better idea is to find a friend w/ a cat to squish it flat, if one has to scrap a fuel tank. Nice truck, as Spanky said should have a 302, largest engine available in that series truck. Engine ser. no. is Stamped on a machined pad, starboard side, rear of engine behind distr., first 3 numbers are displ., i. e. 302xxxxx.

Glad someone pointed out the over the windshield wiper mounting hadn't noticed that before. Anyone know the reason they went over instead of below windshield on this model.

Those 6 spoke hubs are made by Dayton, I removed the front hubs and drums from my 470 parts truck and dayton is cast into them on the back side.