The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop DTM primer over other paints?

As we are fast approaching the time to start prepping for bodywork in our garage I have a question- I am taking alot of the body sections down to bare metal but there are alot of areas that will just get scuffed and then primed/ painted- can I:

Sand down all I am going to down to bare metal, scuff the rest and shoot everything with epoxy DTM primer? Followed by high build and sanding/ color coats? I have enough epoxy- and if I'm going to shoot the bare metal with it I figured it wouldn't hurt to spray everything with epoxy- but am I asking for any trouble?

any thoughts and advice/ opinions are very much appreciated.

Thanks

I don't claim to be a expert painter by no means. But I have done just what you are talking about doing and the paint job came out great on my 55 2nd series and on my 50 AD trucks.

tracern1- thank you very much- that is the route we'll take- appreciate the reply

One thing to keep in mind is that if you don't apply the primer to bare metal, if the base coat you put the primer over fails it all comes off. If there is ANY sign of peeling, checking or bubbling of the original finish I'd take it all down to bare metal.

Point well taken! Thanks Tiny!

I remember reading somewhere about this and after a quick search found this thread ? about dupont ppg DTM epoxy

I thought it covered the basics pretty well and how to check and see if one contains acid or not.
I felt it left unanswered what the effect that acid would have on any remaining original paint or primer.
If acids are used for stripping then having it in a top coat (over the existing) made me nervous about that part.

CASO,
No acids used for stripping on the body of our C10- so I have that going for me. pretty sure I'm just going down to bare metal (with sanders/ wire wheels) everywhere to be sure that I have the best paint adhesion I can get- but here's another issue- I POR-15'd the floor areas of the cab and rockers that had some rust. I am hoping to be able to prime these areas with no bond issues between the POR-15 and the epoxy.... any experience with POR-15 and epoxy primers? I tried POR-15's tie-coat primer over the inner rocker as a test and I think it sucks...IMHO. (It didn't adhere very well and I could just scratch it off with my fingernail) so Tie Coat is out and epoxy is in- if anybody has epoxied over POR and had good / bad / indifferent results please post- thanks!

My concern is for the acid that is a component of the DTM primer eating paint it is applied over... If your stripping down to metal, no worries.
I have no experience with POR products. I try test area by sanding the fully cured POR with 80 grit and hitting that with a couple coats of epoxy and seeing how it is after it has a chance to cure as well.

that sounds like the safest route- how long do you figure it will take before I see a bad reaction if there is to be one with the new DTM and POR?

Well we shot the DTM (2 coats)

http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w497/slawnski/1964%20chevy%20c-10%20Montana/b0299ec6.jpg

and then gave the cab 2 coats of urethane primer-

http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w497/slawnski/1964%20chevy%20c-10%20Montana/f0d8d60f.jpg

so far so good- no adverse reaction from the POR and the Expoy

we have started the process of sanding down the urethane primer

http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w497/slawnski/1964%20chevy%20c-10%20Montana/4bee47a9.jpg

to smooth it out - we now have some fine scratches that we would like to take out- can I use a polyester high buid (easier to sand out) primer? We plan on painting the truck with single stage urethane- any suggestions? I was thinking glazing putty but the scratches- though very small - are all over- I don't want to sand out any more for fear of hitting the epoxy and or sanding down to bare metal.

it looks real good, good job. I was going to tell you that I also use POR15 on my projects and never had any problem when getting epaoxy primer on it. here is a link to the cab I painted with the Eastwood's epoxy primer. I used the POR on the floor board, top, and lower part of the cab before the epoxy primer was sprayed over it. [IMG]http://inlinethumb58.webshots.com/51321/2977925010107361323S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG] And here is a look at the truck after the final single stage urethane paint was applied. [IMG]http://inlinethumb17.webshots.com/47632/2270375770107361323S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG] Abd yes you can use the high build primer over the fine scratches and places you missed. that is what i did. here is link to a pic of the cab touching it up after using the primer [IMG]http://inlinethumb16.webshots.com/49551/2813386830107361323S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG] If the scratches are not to bad, why not use spot putty to fix then with instead of high build primer?

Awesome looking truck!
There are alot of fine scratches and I think it is a matter of being easier to spray a quick coat of primer and sand once more than to spot putty evertything. I was unsure of using the polyester primer over the urethane- if I understand it right the polyester sands much easier than the urethane- is that right? I'm worried about compatability of the urethane paint over a mix of poly and urethane primers... or am I ok to do just that?

thanks, I have sprayed paint over layers of differnt types of primers and never had any problems. On my 55 2nd series truck I did about the same thing you are doing and it came out fine. And that truck was painted a year ago. What grit sand paper are you using to do your final sanding? I had a few places that I had to touch up after my final coat of primer but never a bunch of fine scratches that i had to re prime to fill them. I go with a 400 grit wet sand then a light 600 grit wet sanding Before I get it ready for the paint. Some folks might say that the 400 wet sand would be good enough, and it probably would. But I figure I went this far in preping for paint what is a hour or two more of sanding with 600 going to hurt. But like i put in my earlier reply, I do not claim to be a expert painter just a guy who likes to do the job myself and save money.

Now you sound like an insurance commercial!

You both have nice looking trucks.

We are sanding to 320- Then using red scuff pads- I'll try hitting the areas with 400- 600 and see what happens- Afraid that I went a bit too far (deep) with the 320 and maybe the scratches are from that- also we have not been wet sanding- which again could have attributed to the scratches as the primer dust might be balling up and clogginthe paper briefly - not too sure. We'll try the 400 then 600 tonight and see what we get.

Thanks DMGfifty-

thanks, and your right that did sound like a insurance commercial. I didn't realize it til after you pointed that out. The only difference it that I'm really saving money.

Here are pictures of the scratches I'm talking about- maybe I'm just being too picky?

http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w497/slawnski/1964%20chevy%20c-10%20Montana/ae6da3fe.jpg

http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w497/slawnski/1964%20chevy%20c-10%20Montana/b1ef545a.jpg

I hit everything with 400 (wet) sanded last night-and this is what I have remaining- I have got to be doing something wrong....

Those circular paterns look bigger than 320 to my eye... I'd be looking to recoat and re block starting with 320 if there is only a couple coats under it, or sand it down if there is enough built up already.

Sanded out most of all the fine scratches with 400 wet last night- shot the firewall, dash, ceiling, fuel tank and cab interior walls/pillars last night. We are using Kustom Shop Hot Rod Flatz Steel Blue. I noticed after I was done and moved the cab around- that I missed a small section next the the pillar at the dash- drivers side- I can't beleive that I missed that! I had a light fall off it's mount and break while I was spraying/ movign air line as I sprayed and I didn't bother to stop and reset the light- I'll wet sand the dash again tonight and respray the dash - possibly the ceiling- It didn't spray so well due to the angel I had to hold the gun- another lesson learned!

http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w497/slawnski/1964%20chevy%20c-10%20Montana/2ab740b8.jpg

Here's the fuel tank- for some reason the pictures taken in my make shift "booth" look darker- this is out of the enclosure and it looks alot more blue.

http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w497/slawnski/1964%20chevy%20c-10%20Montana/074caf24.jpg

The fuel tank came out nice good job. And as far as the scratches went you were not being to picky they would have shown after the paint was sparayed. So that was a good idea to resand for sure. And the primer you sprayed looks like you are doing a good job getting it on the metal. But I think you maybe rushing a little to much on your painting. The primer is a good way to practice your paint spraying. Because you can always go back and fix the primer a whole lot easier then going back and fixing the final paint. When I first started painting I thought that the paint would dry fast like if I was using a rattle can. But that is not the case. I found that I could go at a steady pace and keep the gun at a good even speed and distance. I learned this by stopping by the body shop and watching how they did it. I know how it is starting out because I couldn't wait to get the truck painted and see how it would look. But I found out that taking a little extra time on the prep for paint that I would be a whole lot more happy with the end result.

Awesome advice tracern- thank you very much. I guess I was rushing a bit- and I am very anxious to get he truck completed and rolling again. This was supposed to be a rolling work in progress with my son using his truck as we tweeked it and fixed a thing or two at a time. We kinda got carried away! I need to get color on the firewall and interior so I could get the cab back on the frame of the truck and get the mechanicals hooked up and working again. I still have alot of bodywork to do on the hood and fenders- not to mention the bed and utility boxes- Kind of jumped the gun when we disassembled everything- (then descided to paint the engine) I should have gotten all bodywork done first then disassembled- but again another lesson learned.

It has taken a bit of practice and I will need alot more to get the hang of it before the actual color coat of the painting happens again- I will have much more priming to do before I shoot any more color- I plan on having all the bodywork and remaining parts primed and prepped before the final color coat goes on... it's great to get feedback here- I really appreciate it!

no problem, folks here on the forum have helped me out a bunch in the past. If you paint the rest of the truck like you painted the tank. The truck should come out looking great. And I always look at it this way. For what i pay for the single stage urethane paint kt. If I mess up i can always go back and paint it again. I have learned that the actual painting of the truck is the easiest and funniest part of it all. The cleaning up is the worst part of it. It takes longer cleaning the paint gun then painting the truck.

Hey all if your going down to bare metal you will need a good metal conditioner unless it's just metal in spots but with all the painting I have done I find that its better to go all down to bare metal 1 because you see your vehicle 2 because you can see what say previous owner Joe did when he decided to stuff yesterday Sunday paper in a rust hole and cover it with bondo (i have seen it newspaper screen door screen chicken wire ect.) and 3 it gives you a chance to metal finish your vehicle so you don't need any bondo I was just looking at your pictures of the sanding marks if you sand with 80 you cant jump to say 220 or 320 always go 80 180 220 320 400 500 600 and I even go to 800 then paint hope that helps

http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w497/slawnski/1964%20chevy%20c-10%20Montana/b2997cc2.jpg

Took it to 400 before we shot the primer- then hit it with 600 before the color- we are using a flattened (30% sheen) paint so we didn't go too crazy in prep but it came out nice for a dailey driver spray job in my garage....

Heck yeah, great job!! the paint looks really good. the truck will look awesome when you get it on the road. But one thing I need to warn you about. When you get the truck on the road and folks ask you who did the paint. And you tell them you did the job. They will want you to paint thier car or truck. I was surprised as to how many folks are like us and just want a dialy driver type paint job on ther classic truck or car. I tell them that if they do the prep work and buy the paint to come on by the house and we will paint it as long as they do the clean up.

Good point! I think my son has a couple of his friends lined up already.... Here's a shot or two of the project as it sits right now- I took a fall off the frame rails and tore my rotator cuff-a few weeks ago so things slowed down a bit- but I put off the operation until we get the truck on the road for my son. I go in Aug 31st- we should be about done by then...

http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w497/slawnski/1964%20chevy%20c-10%20Montana/6fa4aa41.jpg

http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w497/slawnski/1964%20chevy%20c-10%20Montana/7e202bd8.jpg

Hey, the truck looks awesome, and I appreciate all the good advice in this thread. My nephew and I are about to tackle the '61 (sanding, patching, priming, painting). Nothing fancy ... just a solid daily driver.

Good luck finishing the truck, and getting the shoulder worked on.

Thank you very much. We are using Hot Rod Flatz "Steel Blue" the paint isn't that pricey and the fact that is is only 30% sheen makes the imperfect body work not so noticable from about 20 feet or so...

We'll see how it holds up!

Here's the progress so far...

http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w497/slawnski/1964%20chevy%20c-10%20Montana/78377470.jpg

It looks good.