The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay Old school wire ties

Some time ago I've seen some really old electronic component dissassembled. I can't remember what it was, maybe it was a radio from the 40's. Back then, they used some kind of string with a continuing knot (half hitch?) along the full length of the run. I know it ain't original, but I was thinking of using this kind of arangement for securing my wires when I finish wiring my truck. Just in the engine compartment where it shows. It's probably time consuming, but it really looked cool, expecially if done real neatly. I'm not crazy about using plastic wire ties or plastic looms. Has anyone seen this kind of arangement? I just wanted it to look like it could have been done way back then.

yeah, it's from the electronics world - that's the kinda cable tying I learned in the USAF way back - used a nice waxed nylon string that I still have a spool of - not the kinda thing usually found on a land vehicle, but it does look nice and is very functional

couldn't say what it's called, nor explain, but stop in some day and I'll show ya! doesn't take long if you get the hang of it, especially on short runs like under the hood - we hadta do things half the length of a B52 sometimes! might be able to find the string at a leather shop or saddle makers, as it's like some they use

Bill

Yeah, I learned the same style at Avionics school in the Marine Corps. (I worked on AV8As) The waxed cord is essential. I think a single half-hitch works because of the wax. I too don't really remember the exact knot. Actually, once you get the hang of it it runs a lot faster than setting a series of individual zip-ties.

So that is how that is done! I have seen that on a lot of aircraft, on display. I guess with all the vibration , you have to have everything super secured, without causing undue pressure.

The string is coated in bees wax as it is more sticky, there is two methods of wrapping the cord so it self locks, it's hard to explane how its wrapped, but if you check at the local librery and check out a book called the radio amateur's handbook, publish by the ARRL it shows how. I have a spool of the string about 6in long and 2in in dia, the bees wax gives the string an extra strength by keeping the fibers together.

Steppenwood, is the string cut between the ties or continuous along the run? I think I've seen it continuous in old radio equipment and I don't think it's the same knot or string these guys are talking about. (we called both the process and the string "string tie" at the F-16 factory).

From your question it looks like you are talking about the continuous string. I think it was round and the "string tie" is flat.

Cletis - what I did [still do] is continuous - starts w/ wrap and tie, then run string along the bundle about 3" min, 6" max [actually span of thumb tip when spread to pinky tip was max ], hold there and put the roll of string around the bundle and back under that run, pull tight forward [where it'll hold well cuz of wax], repeat until the end is reached [of cable or roll of string!] - "good workmanship" meant the line of string nice and straight, spacing between wraps even, wires snugged in and nested well together, everything tight - some locations and larger cables got double wraps each time to lock better

the technique allows for inspection of cables, lookin for sign of abrasion or heat damage, tracking any given color no matter where it might branch off, and individual wires could be removed and replaced w/o opening the cable - musta spent hundreds of hours trackin wires lookin for damage/ breaks, replaceing wires, tyin cable on C47, B52, KC135 - usually crawlin on yer knees

Bill

Bill, thanks for the info. Sounds like you did some real fine work. Do you know of any pictures of this kind of arangment on the internet. I'm really interested of doing my wiring like that (or try to). john.

ok John - I did a quickie photo tutorial for ya - not 'fine work' LOL, but the hand truck and camera were right there when someone asked what that string was!, so:

tie the cord around the cable and tie it off [like right at the firewall - note I didn't tie this completely]
run out the cord to the length you want [prolly only 3" or so on the truck]
wrap spool of cord around and under 1st run
another run and around and thru again
and repeat yet again

when you get to a branch [like off to regulator or generator], do a double wraparound and under right before or after the branch to secure it well, and later tie on to that wrap for the branch, and carry on with the main run

clear enuff? don't know where you find a pic of an actual cable done this way!

Bill

Now I see. I've never seen it that way on an airship. All I've worked on are F-16s and F-111s. We tied off each knot individually and cut the string. I assumed all Air Force ships were that way. Our string is flat, yours looks round. Is it?

Bill, thanks alot for taking the time to post those pics. I'm definitly gonna do that. Just in the engine compartment though. That'll look really nice, expecially if I do the knots about an inch apart. Ya think it's overkill?

yes Cletis, it is round, just the same as saddlemakers and sailmakers use , tho' leevalley has it in brown, ours was white - flat? ya sure they weren't given ya dental floss? individual ties was prolly false economy - we sometimes had to cut into it, and never needed any 'replacement' string, just re-tie either side of the cut!

John the advantage [and disavantage!] of inch apart is you'll be able to shape the cable as easy as if it was segmented, and it'll hold that shape - if inch is overkill, you know when it takes the wrong shape and won't do what ya want - make sure you find waxed string tho' as the wax is what makes it hold while yer workin it - might find the stuff they use for makin bow strings [as in bow n arrow] - good luck w/ it, and hope ya make it look nice!

Bill

I have a spool of the stuff (750 yards) made by Gudebrod, inc Pottstown, Pa 19464 there web site is http://www.gudebrod.com/

Oh, a series of half hitches, the trick is to do it from the middle of the string run,no loose end. We used to do a lot of that in electrial construction, but lazy man tie wraps have mostly eliminated the string.

I know there was a trick of using a girth hitch (matching half-hitches) around the bundle and -- if you had to -- adding on a spare line or 2 for a new or replacement circuit. It could secure with a square knot, or that running lock knot no one can remember. I have used waxed dental floss, in a pinch and on the road, if I had to add-in or rework an under-dash circuit. I like the mint best.

Squeeze pics look good, but you are making the loops wrong, the string running parrallel to the wire should come out on on the underside of the loop, thereby locking each loop (not on the top) if you let go of the cord it will all unravel). Another method you make a loop (eye) and the cord continues through the eye locking even tighter.

steppenwood, this thread brings back memories. I ran wiring for telephone switch boards before solid circut swirch boards became the norm. We also used a flat wax sting to bumdle these. Made for a real neat bumdles. Start off with a bundle about as big as my wrist, it would start dropping wires at each relay, finally tapering down to a couple wires. Some of thse boards were 6/8 feet high and maybe 8/10 feet long. It looked complated to build but was really easy if you had good color vision. The engeeniers had it all laid out. All one had to do was follow the key sheet. Hated the job, cooped up inside, no real thinking needed to do it. But the end result was neat to see. Mike

Albert - no - you're talkin of a different kinda "knot", and if I picture that right it'd require at least 1 or 2 additional movements, where what I do [was taught by USAF back then] is speedy and works fine, and the waxed cord is a good part of that - when pulled thru and "cinched" forward it holds quite well
slomoe - I've seen those switchboard wire jobs at a salvage yard hope it wasn't yer work!! course, there's prolly planes in the "graveyard" near MT w/ my work still on'em!

Bill

Squeeze, the old wire switch boards I built were replaced by solid circut boards the size of a dinner plate. Now they are probably the size of a postage stamp, or smaller. Many old wire boards were sold overseas to developing nations. A lot of the old boards were stripped for the wire looms to salvage the copper and other presious metals. At the time the only thing I thought about them about was that they passed testing after I built them. Mike