The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop I need a panel made

The area above my windshield is rotted out all the way across. Does anyone here have the required skills to make a repair panel? I'm really surprised that it's not a readily available repair panel.
[IMG]http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/...oject/photobucket-3540-1325944185638.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/...oject/photobucket-2101-1325944170311.jpg[/IMG]
I've thought of making little 4" pieces and working my way across, but I would really like to replace it in one piece if at all possible.

it's not a common enough job any supplier would bother to make a patch - I don't think anyone but you or someone else on hand could do anything about that complex shape and the particular damage

Bill

you could cut this section out of a good cab/roof and replace it on your truck. then you know the shape/curve is correct. I've seen whole roof panels on eBay, cut through the pillars.

looks like a donor vehicle is needed for this repair. ptl

Must use donor and in ONE piece or your window will never fit.

This panel could be made somewhat easily, the big thing to remember about bending flanges around a radius is that the adjacent flange will need to be either stretched or shrunk, depending on whether the original panel should remain flat or form a radius. Using the following to explain further:

http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y1...iew&current=RadiusedFlangedPanel.png

Where a 12" wide panel has a 1" flange bent, in order to put a radius across the panel you'll need to shrink the flange. Notice in the drawing, at the bend, the dimension remains at 12", halfway up the flange needs to lose about 1" in length, and at the edge of the flange, you need to lose almost 2" in length. So shrinking is used on the flange, and is done in a stepped fashion to provide more shrinking toward the outside of the flange:

http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y1...?action=view&current=ShrinkDemo3.png

In your case, the part up top that tucks under the roof leading edge is about the widest of all the folds, so I would start with that shape as the "original panel", and the remaining flanges we will call fold 1, 2, and 3. As opposed to the sample shown above, in this case we would want the original panel to remain somewhat flat. Looking at the proposed layout of the repair piece linked below, I would start with a cardboard/posterboard template of the upper section (outlined in black) and sufficient material below (outlined in red) to perform the remaining folds.

http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y1...on=view&current=Windshieldrepair.jpg

However, as the flange (fold 1) is folded outward, (outlined in red) with the outer edge of a shorter length, it will tend to pull the original panel into a radius as you bend, similar to our sample panel in the first link. So in this case, we would need to stretch the folded area (primarily in the area in yellow) to maintain the original panel as flat. I'm sure it's not exactly flat, but the correct contour/radius could be achieved by the amount of stretch introduced into the fold.

Now once you have the fold bent at a 90 (if that is the proper degree) and stretched so the original panel matches that of the truck, now you need to perform fold two. In this case, as you are trying to bend the fold downward and in trying to force that into a smaller radius, you will need to shrink the outer flange as you perfom this fold. Otherwise, the excess length will attempt to push the original outward, for less of an arc. I would suggest performing this in increments, fold some, shrink some, repeat. If the width of the remaining flange seems excessive for a Lancaster style shrinker, then I would use the contraction with heat method, heating in a VEE pattern and cooling to shrink. The wide part of the vee would be located on the outer edge of the flange, as that would need more shrinking. Alternatively, tuck shrinking would work as well.

Once that matches the truck, then move on to fold 3, which will be very similar to fold one, you will need to stretch again, especially in the radius at the top corner of the windshield. With some patience and precision, this is very much a panel one could duplicate. The other option in making a replacement panel would be to use a hammer form, but that would take about as much time in itself as making it by the above mentioned method. If someone were to make multiple quantities of this panel, then the hammer form would be more advantageous.

"somewhat easily" ? Well if a person is proficient in a lot if metal working techniques and has all the proper tools and buys the metal, maybe. Cutting/splicing in a donor window surround is easier but that's not "somewhat easy" either. Your explanation shows you know what to do but is not enough for someone who has never done shrinking and stretching and bending and folding and contraction methods and making hammer forms. Donor use requires a lot of measuring, straight forward cutting and welding. Also donor method: as I said, %100 assurance window will fit. Fab method: 0% assurance.

At least the original poster, if he can't find a rust free donor, can rest assured there are other options for him, rather than a bondo/fiberglas repair that would be less than permanent. It's very likely someone skilled in metalshaping lives relatively close that could indeed perform this repair, but if you've already crossed that option off the list, then I guess no need in looking. I think your view of the fab method is rather pessimistic though. I've yet to experience the 0% assurance rate you speak of.. But if nobody ever tried, they'd hit that number every time

yeah, now that Robert has described in detail why nobody has bothered making rarely required complex patches, Greg should be on the hunt for a donor, or maybe could get a piece from his parts truck

Bill

The word assurance, as it relates here, means you are assured of success in one method and not in another. It does not mean you will not have success. I hope he does not "try" the fab method, that way he won't hit the %0 number and waste a lot of time and money. Practice on the thing after you remove it if you want. If you get it right, sell it and maybe get some money back. Also, one can not assume there is a proficient metal shaper near without assuming there is a donor cab near. If the poster does not wish to do the work, a fabricator should have an easier time splicing than fabing.

To be fair, the title does state "I need a panel made".

To show some of what is possible, some good websites to view are AllMetalShaping and MetalMeet , they would give anyone interested some insight as to what can be accomplished, or how to do so, or to perhaps find someone capable of performing the repair for you. This following thread would be an excellent example of some fine metalshaping, with no welding whatsoever in fabricating another obsolete panel.. Be sure to look at all the pages as the more detailed work follows in page 2 and 3.

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9805

Or with some welding if you prefer...

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1121

with 100% assurance it will fit.

Robert, Thanks for sharing. When I first saw this thread I felt it was a possible fab job but I'm a total novice. I have a friend with a project waiting to begin and it looks like the OP's project. So the question of panels or fab will come up for sure.
Your posts are appreciated by those of us who like the challenge but don't have the vision or experience. I have used yours and other tutorials from the sites you list and find them inspiring.

That's fair..... hell bent Bartamos.

I have plenty of welding experience & equipment, but very little skill with sheet metal shaping. The reason I find it surprising that no one offers the panel commercially is 1)In this part of the country, that spot is one of the first to see rust holes. 2)Inner and outer roof panels are produced and easily available. I couldn't imagine replacing the two roof panels and trying to "reuse" this little panel.
Same panel is also junk on the parts truck.

Here is my cab corner that I welded in over the weekend.
[IMG]http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/...oject/photobucket-5464-1332095437666.jpg[/IMG]
and it is the cheap ill fitting import one. So I'm sure that if I could get a panel made that was at least close, I could get it to fit.

Cab corners look good!



All vehicles have their trouble spots. I have done roof repairs and drip rail fabrications on two different 55 Chevy wagons, where the only explaination possible was condensation from the inside caused the rust that occurred from the inside out. I'd say the same situation caused the damage in your truck(s). Based on this being a typical trouble spot, if you did find a donor cab somewhere with a good panel, likely the rest would be too nice to cut up. If I had a "sample" truck to work from here locally, I'd make one for you. From the looks of your cab corner repair, you should have no problems installing a replacement.

For those within driving distance of the Homecoming, I am planning to fabricate this panel for OldDaze and use the opportunity to put on a metalshaping demo at the same time. What I need to use as a measurement guide, would be a 55 (second series) to 59 truck at the event. Preference would be a project truck without the windshield (or perhaps someone needs a windshield replaced?), to insure we get accurate measurements of the opening with the windshield and gasket removed. Anyone who can help out, please send me a private message or respond here..

Homecoming is alittle far for this stage of my build ;-) Anything I can do from here, just let me know. Measurements, more pics, or I might be able to come up with something to cast a negative of the corners so you'll have a profile gauge.

If the parts truck is beyond using, how about cutting the windshield pillars just below this panel, and at the top cut back into the roof a couple inches, and send it to me. I'd rather work from an original part, and one that is rusty would even work as long as it stayed in one piece, hence leaving it attached to surrounding metal. Otherwise, we'd have to rely on someone's truck locally to use as a measurement pattern. (not just dimensions, but also bends, contours, etc.)


*edit*

But it's sounding more like we may find something to work from on this end..

While I was at Mike B's shop yesterday evening, we pulled a pattern off one end of the sample truck so I could do a trial test run. Here's some pictures of what I made today in the shop, looks like we'll have a good demo on making the full replacement part on the 21st for Homecoming.

http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y1.../?action=view&current=Picture184.jpg


http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y1.../?action=view&current=Picture185.jpg


http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y1.../?action=view&current=Picture186.jpg

Magic! That really shows how much skill you have with metal!

WOW! Very nice indeed. That last pic really shows you have the shape down. I hope someone shoots some video of the demo.

I agree with Mpandc this patch is not that hard. If you don't find a donor part then finding someone in your area with tools and skill to fab this up will not be difficult.. make a pattern of the window opening out of 1/2" plywood before you or any one else starts cutting.

Here's the details of this panel's fabrication.....


http://www.allmetalshaping.com/showthread.php?t=5974

Outstanding work! Your panel looks spot on to the OEM replacement panel. The machine that you formed the tight 90's with, is that a skate wheel and a big washer?

The top piece is actually a die made for the bead roller. The bottom part is made from a skate board wheel. Here's the details on those parts....


http://www.allmetalshaping.com/showthread.php?t=5846


We also did a smaller, end piece only windshield patch on Saturday with using only hand tools for fabrication, but had a few hiccups, so in the interest of not spending all day on it, went on to the bead roller. I'm going to try again on the hand formed version and I'll report back with the results.

The manual version of fabrication was done this evening with better results than we saw on Saturday. Here's the thread:

http://www.allmetalshaping.com/showthread.php?t=5974

Duuude you da man

I got the panel from MPandC and I can tell you guys, It's quite a piece of work. Thought I'd snap some pics and include you on the install.
Here is what I started with.
[IMG]http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/...ject/photobucket-25461-1336605007780.jpg[/IMG]
And I cut away a rotten area inside the cab. I was alittle worried that this might cause the piece down close to the windshield would get really wiggley while I was working. Access to the inside was nice though.
[IMG]http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/...ject/photobucket-27958-1336605040415.jpg[/IMG]

First off I dusted alittle paint over the spot welds and when dry, I scuffed it off with some 80 grit. Makes the spot welds show up better. Hit then all with an 1/8 bit and then followed up alittle bigger.
[IMG]http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/...ject/photobucket-24692-1336605060495.jpg[/IMG]
I thought the welds along the windshield edge would be the tough ones. I was wrong, broke most of them loose with a putty knife.
[IMG]http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/...ject/photobucket-32047-1336605075281.jpg[/IMG]

Turned out the welds along the roof edge were tougher. was able the separate with a putty knife and alittle help with a cut-off wheel.
[IMG]http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/...ject/photobucket-42944-1336605088436.jpg[/IMG]
Old panel next to the new one.

[IMG]http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/...ject/photobucket-26184-1336605120694.jpg[/IMG]
And that's when my wife came home from work early carrying a pizza. Being the smart married guy that I am, I put the truck away and headed to the house. :-)

Good to see some metal chips flying!

I got a chance to work on getting the new panel installed. First hurdle I ran into was just getting the panel in there. I had to open up the roof edge on the corners so I could roll the new panel in.
[IMG]http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/...ject/photobucket-27546-1338328664100.jpg[/IMG]
I also cut the panel in half to ease the work load and take the worry away of both corner being where they needed to be.
[IMG]http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/...oject/photobucket-8989-1338318805538.jpg[/IMG]
Worked out GREAT! About two days of fitting and 15 minutes of welding. Outer panel is all installed and I couldn't be happier with it. Huge thanks to MP&C
[IMG]http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/...ject/photobucket-23463-1338328110549.jpg[/IMG]

Looks good Greg, nice job on the install.