The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot '60-'66 Trucks 4x4 steering knuckles question

The steering knuckles on my '66 K10 have fill plugs on the backside. Are these for grease, or gear oil? My NAPCO trucks don't have fill plugs there and are packed with grease from the inside.

I'm assuming they are filled with grease, but my step-dad puts gear oil in the front end of his Cornbinder, which has similar fill plugs.

Thanks for the help,
George

The factory front axle on the '66 Chevy K10 are closed-knuckles, so are the fill plugs in the closure piece?

Tony, Thanks for the reply. They are closed knuckles and the fill holes are in the back side of the "ball". The plugs look the same as the fill holes on a tranny or t-case. One of the plugs had a little bit of grease on the back of it when I pulled it out, but I can't see what's in there.

George

Gear oil if it doesnt leak out too fast, then chassis grease unless you want to reseal the knuckle.

Thanks BC. I think I'll stick with grease since it's proven to work in my NAPCO axles.

George

I believe the book calls for 90w every 1000 miles on the '60's DANA axles. That was probably probably fine for a new axle, but I have always ended up pumping grease in the hole. After a while that gear lube just runs out and all over everything.

On our NAPCO axles, there's a slotted plug on back of ball that you remove, then grease the zerk until grease comes out of the plug hole.

Thanks for the knowledge Rick. I was wondering what the book said.

George

Wouldn't Corn Head grease work pretty well? I know lots of guy swear by it in steering boxes. From what I understand it's the same as what cars use in CV joints, but it's about 1/2 the price at your local John Deere dealer.

I took a LONG look at this, here is what I found out, from my post to the 60--66 gmc site.

K-model guys,

On the Steering Knuckle issue, I took the advice I heard here about not
mixing greases. I work with a guy who used to be in the BIG food
manufacturing (Pilsbury). He agreed about not mixing greases, oil, etc. He
says this is more important with modern lubes than it used to be due to the
advancements in lube technology. This guy is a genius, and a nice man.
Anyway, helped me navigate the lube jungle. Originally the factory filled
the wheel bearings and knuckles with a semi-solid/semi fluid grease. I have
seen this original stuff. The problem happens when the inside diff seals
begin to leak gear oil into the axle tubes.

The MOTORS manual says to mix 90wt and grease to get a semi-fluid
consistency goo to refill after service. The technicians at the oil
companies said not to do this. I had aluminum thickened (not aluminum
complex) non EP grease in the front bearings. The only compatible semi
liquid greases I could find came in 150$ 30lb pails, Mystik centralube was
my first option, but in 30lb pails. The tech kept saying it wasn't for disc
brakes. I finally held him down to admitting is was rated for wheel
bearings. It has a lithium hydroxy thickener and would work with lithium
General Purpose grease.

The aluminum semi fluid greases were all expensive (royal purple had one) so
I ended up washing out that grease aluminum wheel bearing grease and using a
plain lithium thickened (not lithium complex) #2 grease in the wheel
bearings and a lithium thickened 00 grease (about 1500wt) from Smitty's
Super S lubes. This lube is for cotton pickers and is sold in quarts (5$).
It has been in the knuckles for a month or two and no seepage at all. I
expect this stuff to thicken up when it gets cold but still sling. The
original DANA/Spicer sticker on these old trucks said to lock the hubs in
once a month? to lube things. They mean that the axle u-joints run
semi-submerged in semi fluid grease, when the axle shafts spin they throw
grease up onto the top Timken roller bearings that the knuckles pivot on. I
used a small amount of the #2 lithium grease for the locking hubs also.
Some had said that if you use wheel bearing grease, the hubs will not be
lockable in cold weather, which is true.

The lube techs said that although lithium is water resistant, it is far from
water proof. One said to mix a couple of drops of water and lithium grease
on you palm and see the milkiness of the mix. Try that with an aluminum
base. In short, wipe some lithium grease on a window and some aluminum
grease also, then try to wipe both off with a wet towel. I tried, it's dang
hard to get aluminum grease off. I had been told my whole life that lithium
was the grease of choice for boat wheel bearings, aluminum is better. I
have seen people pump whatever grease on hand into whatever needed greasing
also. If you do a google search for "grease compatability chart" you can
find out which greases are compatible. All lithiums are not, just as all
aluminums, sodiums and calcium thickened greases are not. The MYSTIK techs
were VERY helpful. Now I realize that a number 2 General Purpose lithium
grease is not ideal for wheel bearings, BUT, it is rated for wheel bearings
and is compatible with the Smitty's cotton picker grease. Timken recommends
NOT to use chassis grease because their extreme pressure EP additives like
moly are detrimental to wheel bearings, especially in high concentrations
like in EP chassis grease. I also found that the term "long and short fiber"
wheel bearing grease, and other terms like this are the old way of
specifying roughly, the length of the hydrocarbon chains in the grease. I
was brought up thinking that the there were actual fibers in the grease? All
this comes from about 2 months of research because I did not want to ruin
good wheel bearings early, OR have crud run out all over the place.

This is what I learned so far and what I put in my truck. We'll see what
happens on the bearings. If anyone knows or can correct anything I have
here, please email me at fireballv8@.... There was not much info on
the net about this subject at all and the only place to get the knuckle goo
pre made was novak adapters at 60$ a gallon, and they didn't know what kind
of thickener it used...back to mixing greases. I looked long and hard for
some science based answers that could be defended and none were out there,
not even guesses or recommendations. This might be a good addition to the
website when I get it condensed. Anyone looking for old 4x4 into will come
across info on the venerable Big Block V6. Maybe someone will pull a v8 and
find a BBV6 and GMC hood on their "other" GM truck while they are fixing up
their 4x4.

Hope this helps someone sleep better after fixing their k model.

Mike Green

Durant, OK

Thsnks for the info Mike. I was just gettting ready to rebuild the front end in my K10.

Awesome info Mike. Thanks for taking the time to post it.

George

My understanding is that the knuckles call for gear oil and this is what lubricates the inner and outer wheel bearings and knuckle bearings as well as the u-joint in the axle shaft. When I took mine apart, those wheel bearings were pretty dry. Knuckle bearings were shot. My solution was to pack all the bearings with grease like conventional bearings found in an open knuckle system or two wheel drive. So far so good. I figure if I stick to a 10,000 mile service interval, I will re-pack about every seven years. And no oil spots.

If you just pack wheel bearing grease in there, the axles will tunnel the grease and nothing will reach the upper pivot bearings. If you put gear lube in there, even with new wiper seals, it will run out all over. the 00 grease (about 1500wt) is about right. There is no factory specs on this stuff. No one has ID'd the stuff that was in there to begin with, and it was not 90wt. Semi solid grease is what is the best guess of old technicians of the era.

the knuckles take 140wt gear oil. here are 2 bulletins from Dana and everything that you need to know is in them
http://www2.dana.com/pdf/5310-3.pdf
http://www2.dana.com/pdf/5305.pdf
ron

I had a 67 chevy k-10 and it had the Dana axle and used 140 wt gear oil. Same as the mower gearcase for my Gravely tractor. My 64 GMC 4/4 3/4 ton calls for 140wt in the axle ends and 90wt in the center of the Dana axle.

Great info!

If the balls on the ends of the axle tubes are not scored or rough, new seals and felts will keep that 140wt where it is supposed to be. The quality of the seals is not what it used to be since they are most likely made in china.
Taking all this into consideration, you can make a good choice on what to do when if the oil puddles up.

I haven't found much straight 140wt anywhere. Most is 90w-140 and it flows like 90wt.

You have to pack the knuckle bearings with grease, same as the wheel bearings. Not relying on grease in the wheel bearings alone. Really, it is the same way the open knuckle
is lubricated.

be sure to read the whole thread on this before you just pack them with grease.

Hi Mike,

The grease that was available thru Novak adapt is Sodium thickened,

I know this because I supplied Novak with this grease up until recently,

Nothing wrong with the grease but they dropped it because of let's say my "unconventional" marketing tactics,

I very much enjoyed reading your post and you have a very good understanding of this situation,

Yes some books recommend 140 w but I believe none actually came that way from production. Filled with a + 1 or +0 grade of grease,

Now I don't know how it is here on the stove bolt forums to talk about a product I am attempting to market, but since Novak stopped carrying my product I have, it really isn't available,

At the moment, on line, only at my little shop in North Idaho, but when funds permit I will invest more time and money to make this sodium based semi fluid available,

Now the way I came acrost this and began investigating, researching this is quite the story, and may surprise you,
Now again your research in this matter is remarkablebly accurate ,

I believe I have found this rare form of grease used in production,

Thanks Frank,

The long Short fiber deal ??

Now this is the explanation I heard about long and short fiber

Texture: Texture is observed when a small sample of grease is pressed between thumb and index finger and slowly drawn apart. Texture can be described as:

Brittle: the grease ruptures or crumbles when compressed.

Buttery: the grease separates in short peaks with no visible fibers.

Long fiber: the grease stretches or strings out into a single bundle of fibers.

Resilient: the grease can withstand moderate compression without permanent deformation or rupture.

Short fiber: the grease shows short break-off with evidence of fibers.

Stringy: the grease stretches or strings out into long, fine threads, but with no visible evidence of fiber structure.



So this hydrocarbon length deal ??

The term " short Fiber" has been associated with Soda or sodium soap greases, least that's how it's described by the patent back in 1940'


Article called "uses for Short fiber grease " nowadays describes it as a grease of a more liquid nature, and Silicon based ,,

?

Well you guys are reading this so I will keep at it,

Here's a little speal I did about this stuff and how and why I came to begin looking into it

Very simple Folks, a Toyota dealership told me it was private,

Yep I am not old enough to have been around in the Day to see this form of grease in Domestic Rigs,

but Toyota replicated this ol axle , preety darn close, well actually , parts interchange,

Here ya go,



A while back I ran into a odd situation, with conflicting information from Toyota about a type of grease for the enclosed knuckle steering axle, So while none of the information that I got from Toyota added up, I decided to read up on what Domestic Manufactures used in years past, for this unique "Live" steering axle,

What Dodge stated in a old Motors manual was "Short Fiber grease" this at the time made really no sense to me, had no idea what that meant, I asked a grease specialist what that meant, and he did not know either, but a old Jeep book mention Sodium based grease, was used for initial fill at the factory, for their version of this Dana axle,

Now when began looking into Sodium based grease, mostly just to try to find some,I learned that it was also known as Soda Soap grease, So it was about a month or so into my research when I came found a patent From 1941 on the Internet, all about Short Fiber grease,

The first line in the patent was that Short fiber grease was related to Soda soap greases, Wow Sodium grease, Dodge uses the same thing as Jeep, just called it by a vague round about term,

Then in reading up on this type of grease, in the semi fluid form (Learned from Jeep) #0 form, I learned that it had "Adhesion" properties, so this made what International stated to use make sense a38 OZ of a Viscous Chassis lube,,
This word was the first Clue that I had in this crazy grease search, in a Viscous coupler is where I had seen this grease, So while all of these three manufactures used three different terms they all said the same thing,

If you where to go to a astute grease supplier and ask him for a grease that had "viscous" properties he would hand you a sodium based grease in a semi fluid form, being the definition of the word "Viscous" is syrup or glue like,
Describing a fluid with adhesion, While other manufactures like Ford only said use the "proper lube" and to fill the knuckle with 1/2 pint of it, now the only clues there where, if there is a "proper lube" there is also a "incongruous lube" and that a pint is typically a fluid measurement,

Now flash forward in Time from the 1960,s when these things where all that was used and call parts supplier that specializes in the parts for these things, and some how these "Fill plugs" have turned into "inspection holes" , I met one such owner of a Power Wagon that thought that this didnt make much sence,
What the heck am I going to inspect thru that little hole? He was pretty sure Ol Dodge wanted him to pump some sort of fluid in their,

He was right, Short Fiber Grease,, ,,,, To be continued

So while one may think that the advancements in lubrication technology go hand in hand with production vehicles this is not always the case, While conversing with classic car owners older designs sometimes will require a unique lube of the past, simply by design, so while it is such a niche market larger grease manufactures will not always produce these type of greases, they become obsolete, Now this is apparent in the Closed knuckle as well as a older type of U -joint used in Dodge passenger cars,

It is known as the Ball and Trunnion U joint, this older design owners have found very little success with newer lubricants, The Original lube is described as something between gear oil and grease, with tremendous clinging ability, This describes to a "T" what this type of grease is

Now on the average the mechanic using the grease does not know a whole lot about what it is or how it is made, only what he can see, so by simply smelling or feeling the grease mechanics can get some what of a idea of what they are working with,
So in this day in age when mechanics or techs as what they are called now a days with wear latex gloves to as to protect themselves from this horrendous material they have to work with, less and less is observed,
Aside from smell, that is all about a tech or mechanic can know about them,,

So this type of grease in modern times is generally mis diagnosed as axle seal failure in this closed knuckle application, simply because mechanics or especially Techs are not educated about grease, I know that I wasnt, Only began looking into this subject because of mis leading information from Toyota,

I learned a whole lot in very small time, it all had made sense because I had worked with all types of grease over the years but never stopped to learn about it, never wondered, its funny looking back, I had seen semi fluid in wheel hubs but never thought about it,
Just packed it with #2 grease like anything else, now what is the unique aspect of this axle is that the wheel bearings are also lubed by this #0 grease, and since it acts more like a oil longevity of thirty or more years can be obtained, Since the lube is designed to flow thru the spindle bushing, so its simply not a good idea to use two types of grease for the same assembly, as the grease experts state even greases of the same base can have incompatibility issues,

This is one of the main reasons this Short Fiber grease, Soda grease , Sodium grease is no longer used, Incompatible with any other base of grease,

So much easier just to use and have one type of grease , So while little niche older designs that are engineered for this type of grease, not enough demand, simple, becomes obsolete,

What works for the steering knuckles I have a 57 Napco 1 ton. The axels started spraying now its just dripping looks like axel fluid. Any suggestions, It looks like people are saying pump grease into them and the differential? is that correct?

Can I put this aluminum grease into the knuckle and the differential case of met Napco?

Regular gear oil in the differential, and semi fluid grease in the knuckle area,

did sme reading about Napco, sounds like its preety much all the same stuff, As Dana, or so closely in Kahoots with each other more or less the same stuff ??

Pictures of the Napco axle ?

No full plug on the axle ??

But reg ol gear oil in the diff,