The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk Trico anyone???

Does anyone know of any Trico literature that is posted on the internet?? There seems to
be zero information about the wiper motors, fans or anything else other than blade
available.

Denny G

I found some stuff a while back, it seems that the bookmarks are on my old computer. If the old one will fire up one last time, I'll send you some links. Either way I know that I did find some info.
Rob

Not much here, but it's a start ...

http://www.tricoproducts.com/
See links at bottom of page ...
About Trico Products - Innovations, History
Contact Us - Original Equipment

Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trico

Trico vac wiper rebuild pics
http://www.wiperman.com/

Trico trademarks
http://trade.mar.cx/trico

Trico wiper rebuild
http://local.aaca.org/traaca/garage1.htm

I've got a vacuum operated fan like the first pictured here, "patented 1937", they come up on e-bay regular ... where ya still got time left to buy a catalog that looks interesting for pre-war TRICO

Bill

Denny, somewhere around, I have some contact info of a guy that retired from Trico. He was selling windshield washer parts. It will be a needle in a haystack, but I will look for it.

(There was) a Trico CD on Ebay...

Thanks Lonnie, the first one was what I’d found before at Trico. 99% of it focused on
their newer products and a historical time line leading up to their new products. Wiki just
mirrors the Trico site’s information. Fricken don’t give anything away. AACA just shows
a blow up of a Model A motor. But what I did find interesting was the trad.mar.cx/trico
site, managed to download an 80’s product catalog.
Still looking for installation, service or any other literature especially in the 40’s-50’s era.

Looking more for shared downloads Bill, that catalog is gonna go for over fifty bucks, it’s
already past my limit. Now if some smart guy would have copies of things like that re-
printed and available for 10-$15 he’d make a lot more for himself in the long run. That’s
a little early for me but I wouldn’t mind having the info for the reference file. TKS.

Wouldn’t mind having that Greg, if you run across it I appreciate you passing it on.

For under ten bucks US, I might just take a chance on that Bear. Still isn’t install or
service but still it’s more on the history of what was offered by Trico.

Just gathering up scraps right now, might get enough to complete a puzzle one day.
Thanks guys,
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny:

Try www.wiperman.com. This guy supposedly bought Trico's stock when they folded. He rebuilt mine and when I talked to him he sure sounded like he knew his stuff, even changed my motor which was not original to my truck back to the correct stroke !!

Thanks Kip, we know about them. But I'm one of those do-it-yourselfer types Kip and I'm just looking to
gather any information about the Trico stuff for my reference file. Just wondering what the factory had to
offer about rebuilding their products back when people did rebuild stuff rather than just throw it out and
buy a new one.

One of the most mysterious and little known things about the Trico wiper motors is what the seal
material is made from that they used in the piston or paddle, which ever you prefer to call it. It was
actually a woven pad impregnated with "something". It’s that something that seals and lubricates the
paddle. The paddle seal is 98% of the rebuild on the vacuum motors and I’m sure if Ficken let the cat out
of the bag and let us know what the seal material was his inflow would drop like a rock.
The vacuum motors are really very simple devices if you’ve ever taken one apart. Just a few moving
parts and the only thing that really wears or goes bad in them is the seal used in the paddle. I’m sure that
Ficken exhausted his supply of NOS pistons long ago and is rebuilding the paddles by now. Once you
know what material is used in the seal it’s no big deal to pop the rivets sandwich new seal material in
place and press it closed with new rivets. But, for the umpteenth time, there-in lies the secret to
rebuilding a Trico wiper motor, the seal!!!! Call Ficken some time and ask what his seal is made from
and what his secret grease is that he uses and I’ll bet you won’t get a straight answer. Can’t blame him
though, when you’re the only show in town you don’t give away your secrets, I wouldn‘t either.

New gaskets aren’t a big deal for these motors either. They’re a little delicate maybe but anyone with a
pair of scissors, an Exacto knife and a little patients can make a new set.

Another question that I’d bet the service info addresses is the grease used for assembly. Over the years
I’ve heard of guys trying just about everything you can imagine to lubricate the paddle. Vaseline, chassis
grease, plain old motor oil, graphite, ATF, silicone, corn head grease, goose grease and many more. I’d
like to know what Trico used back in the day or what they recommended in the rebuilding kits they sold.


Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Hay Denny:

As far as the grease goes, I was able to get mine working just fine with a good clean up and some white lithium grease on the “paddle” seal. Even managed to save the gasket. My problem was that the stroke was way too long. I checked with the guy at Flicken and found that the numbers on the wiper motor did matched the truck so the stroke was not correct. I think he mentioned that there were 3 different stroke arks. Anyway it was looking like I needed a new cam and he would not sell them so I just had him rebuild mine.

Denny,

Here is some info that may help you out. It occured to me that the TRICO motors have a bunch of patent numbers on them. I wonder if the patent descriptions might tell us something interesting?

Here is a site that will let you punch in a patent number, and it will return the patent as a PDF:

Patent to PDF

I started punching in numbers from an old TRICO motor I have laying around and found

This.

I'm sure there is more in this well.

Enjoy,


Kurt

Great site Kurt, thanks a bunch, I‘m adding that to my reference tool box. I‘ve always had to copy and
paste each page of the patents, when I could find them then edit them in Photoshop.

I’ve got a spare motor I picked up for my ‘50 and I just ran the US patents on it thru the program, works
great. I’ve saved them and I’m printing out my bed time reader for to night as I type.


1978634, 1934
2032319, 1936
2069070, 1937
2322963, 1943
2338690, 1944
2536821, 1951

One more piece to the puzzle!
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Here is another one you did not have on your list:

2617136

Makes for some interesting reading. Looks like Trico used graphite as a component of the lubricant. Maybe this is the secret sauce.

Kurt

Thanks once again Kurt. That patent number wasn't on the unit I've got here. Jan. 2,1951
is the newest patent number on mine, you must have a later one.
And again, I'm printing that one out for this evenings read. I find the wording in these
patent documents really hard to decipher. Seems like they could describe what they mean
in English, with my limitations the legalese might as well be Chinese at times.

But what I’ve been able to sort out so far partially agrees with what I discovered back in
'05 when I took the one out of my '50 for cleaning. I'd heard a lot of mention back then
about the piston seal being made from "leather". When you first take a look at the seal, it
could pass for leather unless you do some discovery. I think a lot people still believer it’s
a leather seal and just slab some grease around expecting them to work like new. I did a
little digging back then and found that it was actually a woven material that was
impregnated with that "something". I suspected that it had some graphite in it also but
there seemed like there was something more to it.
From my reading last night they describe the “cup packing material” used in the piston
construction as a woven fabric impregnated with a cellulose nitrate plastic which is
infused with graphite. If I’m interpreting what they are saying correctly, before the piston
plates are assembled the fabric is loaded with grease which assures an adequate supply of
lubricant over the life of the motor. Also the talk about an expander plate the keeps
pressure on the packing flanges.
Interesting that the last patent you posted Kurt, does makes mention of the disc valve
which isn’t addressed in the earlier patents.

I would like to get a few cadavers from guys that have upgraded to the electrics so I can
do some autopsies. I’m also going to be on the lookout for some materials that can be
used as a replacement for the packing. So if any one has any junk that’s taking up shelf
space I’d like to talk at you.

As an addendum, I just won a couple of Trico vacuum fans on eBay. One rubber blade
and one metal w/a guard. For what I paid for them I doubt if they’re any good but at
least I’ll be able to find out what makes them tick and that‘s what turns me on.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Many of us don’t want to spend the hundred bucks to get your vacuum wiper motor
rebuilt properly, so what most of use end up doing is disassembling them (simple enough)
cleaning and wiping some grease around inside. This usually works but usually only for a
short while.
But……..inside the paddle is where the supply of fresh grease is supposed to reside. The
old grease that’s been in the paddle for 50, 60 or 70 years by now is usually dried out or
so thick that it doesn’t flow any more. Simply cleaning off the out side and wiping some
grease around the cylinder and seal like I mentioned will work for a short time but after a
while your motor will loose power, get sluggish or start to stick because the piston runs
dry once the grease has been pushed up into the corners.
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/141586832/large

I have to disagree with the comments that say the window has to be wet or the blade
friction will stop the motor. These motors when they are lubed and are sealing properly
are powerful enough to pull two blades across a dry window. The piston has almost
4sq.in. of surface area. 20in.hg. is almost 10psi which means that it‘s possible for the
piston to pull with a force of almost 40lbs. in either direction.

Now……all I have to do is get the new rivets ordered, find a source for the valve and seal
and I can continue with the experiment.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Send me your address via email and I'll send you 4. Two canabolized for my electric conversion - made the truck look stock but its electric now. The other two are old ones I bought on ebay. Maybe you can help figure out how to restore them for everyone. My email is [email protected]

Thanks Gene, email's on the way. Gotta watch it, I don’t want to turn this into a parts
wanted thread that's not the intention. These autopsies are just experimental, and it
will take time to seek out sources for the parts and tooling to reassemble the paddle.
Some of the materials might not even be available. It’s not really practical to rebuild these
yet, much cheaper to have Ficken do the rebuild for you.

According to the patents from the 40's, 50's, the seal material was treated with a cellulose
nitrate and graphite compound. That....might be pretty hard to find, most likely
impossible so there must be a modern day sub that the rebuilder’s are using.

The valve appears to be formed from the same fabric but since it doesn't have to slide like
the cup packing material that is used for the paddle seal a rubberized fabric should work
fine for that. I believe one of the patents that Kurt linked me to mentioned that the valve
would be made from a rubber material.
I'm trying to figure out a way of steam forming rubberized fabric now. Not sure if it can
be done after it is cured or if you have to do the forming before it’s vulcanized and use
the steam to vulcanize the rubber. The vacuum motor valve disc appears to be formed like
the Carter YF accelerator diaphragms were. This might just be deformation that I’m
seeing from its slammed up into its seat. I'll know more when I can compaire a few
more examples.


Ah,,,,those little details, and I do like a challenge!

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny,

Trico is still in business, maybe some old grey beard in the engineering department might be helpful, although in these days of hyper-security, it is hard to get up with one of those fellas.

How 'bout a modern material like a Kevlar fabric and a urethane seal?

Kurt

All the really old gray beard's by now are in nursing homes drooling on the bibs, the new
crop of gray beard’s are just young sprouts like you Kurt. And I've yet to find any up to
date thriving business like this that hasn't moved on, leaving their past history in the trash
bin. About all they have to offer are a paragraph on the timeline of the companies
acquisitions.
I'm not worried about the valve if that's what you meant buy the urethane seal. You can
see by the 'original' size picture of the disassembled piston, that the piston seal is a special
material not just a plane fabric. It's thin, .028-.030" and is completely sealed with just a
hint of the weave showing on the surface. Also the edges are formed in a smooth cup
shape. That is going to be the real challenge. From what I've been able to extract from the
patents, they were blanked from a treated sheet (my bet is an un-cured sheet) then formed in a
curing die.
None of this is clearly documented so this is all just supposition on my part. I'm not an
engineer so I can't really call this reverse engineering, it’s just an old mechanical tech
taking a guess at how they made things back in the heyday of US industry.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL


DG

My search has brought me to some reading that is aimed at the audio/video archive community. The
recording medium in the 30’s thru the 50’s were based on Cellulose nitrate or Nitrocellulose. The
recording discs were nitrocellulose lacquer and the film was nitrocellulose based also. As a plasticizer
camphor or synthetic camphor was added to the cellulose nitrate so the disks would be soft enough to
be cut and so the film would be flexible enough to run thru the projectors.
The Trico patents I’ve looked at suggest that the piston seals used by them in the 30’s thru the 50’s
used cellulose nitrate impregnated fabric as the flexible plastic. If that’s correct, then this would give
reason to why the seals appear stiff and dried out once they are cleaned sixty or seventy years later. The
camphor used as a plasticizer in the compound leaches out over time and the nitrocellulose shrinks and
becomes brittle.
Film Archivists place vintage films in a sealed container with synthetic camphor to soften the film,
which they are then able to run thru a projector in order to make a digital preservation copy.

So my thoughts are this; if after cleaning the piston seals they were placed in a closed container with
camphor would that re-plasticize the seal making it soft enough to seal the vacuum once again?????

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

You could contact the Ill. Film Commission and talk with their archive people.

Denny, that's a really neat idea. Only hitch I can see is that if the seal has shrunk, it might be flexible again, but would still not seal. Definitely worth a shot. I know some folks that have connections at the UNC document preservation center. If you can't find a source for the camphor let me know and I will try to help.

Kurt

Camphor seems to be available everywhere Kurt. The seals in this particular unit that I
have here don't seem to have shrunk. I'm sure that would be a problem with some of them
that we open up.
I'll be ordering the rivets and making up a few studs to reassemble the paddle in the
Morning. I've yet to find any information about forming cured rubber, all of the sheet
goods that I’ve found is cured rubber cloth included sheet and I spent several hours online
this afternoon.


Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL