The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay Voltage Regulator

My voltage regulator started acting up while driving... Would go from over charging to normal to discharging randomly... So I bought ECH VR56 from NAPA...

I charged the battery overnight... Installed the regulator and polarized it per instructions... Started engine ok... The ammeter read well into the charging side... Turned lights on bright and heater fan on high ammeter went down to almost the middle ... Voltage on the Battery and Ammeter side if the regulator showed almost 9 volts with engine running, almost 7 volts engine off, Field shows 3.5 volts of so engine running...

The Air Gap is .20" as it should be... The Air Gap on the other two out of the box is .035" - .040" ... I could not find the specifications for this regulator on the NAPA or Echlin website... Will setting them at the specifications of .075" - .085" bring it back to a more normal reading ?

DO NOT tamper with the air gaps! The spring tension on the voltage regulator coil points is too high. With the engine running at a fast idle, (1500 RPM or so), the voltage should be approximately 7.5 volts against a fully-charged battery. The voltage regulator coil is directly behind the "F" wire connection, so if there is a screwdriver adjustment on the point spring, reduce the tension slightly, open the points for a couple of seconds by pushing on the movable point, and check the voltage at the "Bat" terminal when the cutout relay recloses. If the spring arm is tensioned by a tab without a screw adjustment, bend the arm slightly up or down to change the voltage setting. CAREFUL! A tiny change in spring tension makes a big voltage change! The voltage setting will drop slightly when the cover is put on the regulator because steel conducts magnetism better than air, so adjust the voltage about 0.1 or 0.2 volts higher than you intend to have when everything is buttoned up.
Jerry

Thanks Jerry, I got the voltage down but noticed that the points do not line up... They over lap by half... Need to return it ?

Which points? It's possible to bend the mounting areas a little to align them, and I doubt that any parts store will accept a returned electrical item, especially after it's been installed and adjusted. The two spring-closed points are the current regulator (behind the Arm. wire) and the Voltage regulator, behind the Fld. wire. Neither one of them carry much current, but the points should meet pretty much in alignment. The cutout relay behind the Bat. terminal carries all the charging current, so it has bigger contacts which need to align as closely as possible. If you adjust the alignment of the points, be sure to recheck all the settings.
Jerry

Jerry, the cutout relay looks aligned... The voltage regulator and the current regulator do not line up...

Voltage Regulator Pic

Before I try to do any bending I will give NAPA a call...

Yep, good perspective from the pic. I'd gently twist the stationary point bracket with a pair of pliers to align the contacts, and then recheck the voltage setting. It's not rocket science- - - -mechanical points can be aligned pretty easily. That goes for distributor points, also. We used to watch the tiny sparks created as the points operated with the dizzy on the tester, and used a special tool to bend the stationary point to center the contact surface. The same thing can be done on a voltage regulator if necessary.
Jerry

My concern is if I bend them so that they line up they will not be have flat contact... That is what I am seeing by looking at them... Current regulator pic

I called NAPA and they are willing to exchange it but with no guarantees that the exchange one may have the same issue...

Yes, definitely do an exchange if they'll take it back. That's a good example of very bad quality control at the factory.
Jerry

Update: Took the VR 56 Voltage Regulator back to NAPA to exchange it for a new one... Opened up the new one in the store and found it to have the same issues, Voltage and Current Regulator points do not line up properly... Got a refund now to find a different brand... Note, not all things made in the USA are quality workmanship...

Man, that looks pretty pathetic.

Hmmmm- - - -maybe those were "made in the USA" after lunch- - - -by the guys they caught on camera drinking and smoking dope in the parking lot!
Jerry

HAAA Jerry, I know the quality control guy must have been asleep at the end of the assembly line...

Went to a local parts store and pick up another regulator... It looks like the same manufacturer as the ones from NAPA but a different brand... I opened it up in the store and it looked much better inside... Installed it and got it really close to the correct voltage...

Thanks Jerry for your expert advice...

Finally got the regulator at its correct settings of about 5.5 Volts for the Voltage Regulator and 7 or so for the Current Regulator and the same at the Bat terminal an the regulator... The Ammeter reading is centered when running... When I turn the lights it moves to the Discharge side by almost 1/3 the way towards the " D ", is this going to be ok or is there something I am needing to adjust ? My old regulator before I needed to replaced it stayed in the center between the D & C on the ammeter no matter if the lights were on or off...

Before the last change the voltage on the Voltage Regulator was barely 4 volts and the others were over 8 volts... The ammeter was reading centered and was not showing and discharging...

Since last post I drove it and when the engine rpm got high enough ( 2500 or so ) the ammeter center itself like it should be and has been hovering there since... Rechecked the voltages and they stayed set as per the shop manual...

When setting the currrent regulator points you jump the voltage regulator points to put it on full output voltage wise.

My discharge issue returned... When I turn on the head light or heater fan the ammeter goes about 1/3 the way towards the " D "... I figured out what is causing this, the Cut Out Relay does not close when I run the engine... Figured this out from reading this thread generator not gening post by Hotrod Lincoln " the set of points behind the BAT connection should close anytime the engine is started, and spring back open when it stops. " ... Mine are wanting to stay opened all the time... When they stay opened the engine does not run as smooth and especially noticeable when I come to a stop the engine wants to die... The Hydra-Matic does not like it at all...

Any ideas a to why this is happening ? Voltage Regulator has only installed a few weeks...

Battery and Generator are good, tested the voltages...

Your previous post describing voltages is all wrong. Is this a 6 or 12 volt system? As the armature terminal voltage gets above 6.5 volts or so, (assuming it's a 6V system) the cutout relay should close. If not, the cutout is out of adjustment. New or old doesn't matter where the regulator is concerned- - - -proper adjustment is what is absolutely essential.

"Battery and generator are good, tested the voltages..." How did you test the voltages? Was a CURRENT test done on the generator as well? Most places like Auto Zone, etc. have no idea how to do a correct test of a generator, and unless somebody puts a charge output test to the generator, it hasn't been tested properly yet. A good-condition 6V generator should be capable of producing 25-30 amps at about 6.5 volts. Just a "voltage" test accomplishes nothing.
Jerry

Jerry, what are the correct voltages at the :

Cut Out Relay ( BAT ) terminal

Current Regulator ( A ) terminal

Voltage regulator ( F ) terminal

6 volt system

OK, I'll make some educated guesses, but actual measurements will vary somewhat:

Battery: (engine off) 5.9-6.1 Volts
Engine running, cutout relay closed: 6.5-7.5, depending on the state of charge of the battery. If the battery is fully charged, 7.5 Volts +/- a couple of tenths.

Armature: While charging with the cutout relay closed, about 1 or 2 tenths of a volt higher than battery terminal voltage.

Field: This voltage will vary widely, depending on the operation of the voltage and/or current regulator points. Measuring voltage at the field terminal, either generator or regulator, is a waste of time.

UNLESS YOU HAVE AN ACCURATE AMMETER TO CHECK THE CURRENT OUTPUT OF THE ARMATURE, ALL VOLTAGE READINGS ARE VIRTUALLY WORTHLESS. Both voltage and current measurements are needed to accurately check a generator-type charging system.

Here's how it works: The properly polarized generator develops a very low voltage due to a property called "residual magnetism". Without any wires connected to the generator, it should produce about .5 volts at both the armature and field terminals (engine running, of course). The regulator takes this low voltage from the field terminal,and runs it to ground through the voltage regulator points and the current regulator points, in series with each other. When the field current goes to ground, it increases the magnetism in the field coils, which causes the armature voltage to rise.

When armature voltage rises to approximately 6.5 volts, the cutout relay should close, allowing armature current to go to the battery. As long as the armature voltage remains higher than battery voltage, the battery will recharge, and the ammeter on the dash will indicate in the + direction, or "charge", whichever way it's labeled. A dash ammeter is a "wild-azz-guess" indication- - - -not accurate enough to measure actual charge current!

As the battery recharges, the current regulator might begin to operate to keep the generator from overloading itself. When these points open momentarily, a resistance is inserted in the field circuit which reduces the armature output. When the current drops to a safe level, the points reclose and the generator goes back to full output. The points vibrate several times a second to regulate the current flow to 25-30 amps, depending on generator capacity.

Once the battery recharges somewhat, the current regulator stops functioning and the voltage regulator points take over to prevent overcharging due to high armature voltage. Most 6 volt system regulators are set at around 7.5 volts.

THE STATE OF CHARGE OF THE BATTERY IS THE ULTIMATE VOLTAGE-CONTROLLING FACTOR. NO CHARGING SYSTEM WILL DEVELOP MORE VOLTAGE THAN IS NECESSARY TO PUSH A CHARGE INTO THE BATTERY. A battery that is badly discharged might show charging current going into the battery at 6.5 volts or so, while a fully-charged battery might take 7.5 volts to receive the same amount of current.

Cutout relay, current regulator, and voltage regulator points are adjusted by changing the spring tension on the points. Regulators aren't all that mysterious, but they MUST be adjusted accurately, using the proper equipment. A $5.00 digital multimeter from Auto Zone IS NOT the right equipment!
Jerry

What kind/brand/etc. ammeter/multimeter are you guys using?

I use and recommend a "Fluke" meter as it don't care what you get into with the probes, Ohms or volts, It automatically senses and adjusts the reading BEFORE it blows the fuse or destroys the movement. Jerry

Remember the old advertising slogan? "If it works, it's a Fluke!"

In general, digital multimeters suck like a Hoover upright when trying to take readings on a DC generator/vibrating point regulator system. The meter responds too fast to changing voltages, and the digital readout "hunts" all over the place. An analog meter (with a sweep needle, not a digital readout) works much better.
Jerry