The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop 1950, the interior color issue isn’t dead yet.

Well at least in my mind it isn’t, some of you know how I need to beat a subject to a pulp
before I‘m satisfied.
Has anyone ever bought this paint from TCP Global? The note on the chip seems to
indicate that it is PPG DBU but when you select the ‘Acrylic Enamel’ button at the top it
pulls up a tech sheet for Restoration Shop AE paints.
http://www.tcpglobal.com/aclchip.aspx?image=1950-chevrolettruck-pg01.jpg

I can’t figure out how you would order the paint online from the chip they’re showing
here. I haven’t called them yet and I would like to have a little more information before I
call and do battle on the phone with someone that probably won’t know what I’m looking
for. I’m thinking I would like to add one more sample of this acrylic enamel to my shelf
full of interior colors for the 1950 pickups. I’ve tried a half dozen samples from that many
vendors and have found the PPG DBU/DBI 27467 to be the closest match so far, but it
taint quite perfect either.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

I bought from Jim Carter haven't used it yet is it any good?

Man, you're fussy. LOL

I bought a quart of it from JC when I first brought Bluebelle home in '05 and it looked
like I dried mud when it dried. Unless they've made a drastic change in the formula I'd
steer clear of it.

You couldn't mean me Leo, I'm just workin' on an old daily driver with rolls a ripples in
her tin. But, when ever I can I try to keep her as original as possible.

DG

The JC interior paint is not any better since '05. It's way too dark of a gray,is not a metallic and does look like mud. I have 2 quarts if anyone would like it - real cheap! Denny, I have found a tremendous variation in the colors of the same paint code number from manufacturer to manufacturer. The same even within the same manufacture's different paint lines. I have been primarily using PPG and Sherwin Williams and found that the 27467 in their Deltron line comes close to matching the original interior paint I can find on my '50 Chevy. However their Omni line does not come close to matching the Chevy, but does come close to matching the interior color on my '52 GMC that I am currently in the process of restoring. I checked the two formulas at the PPG distributor as they were mixing up the colors and the formulas are indeed very different. Same paint code number, but very different formula and resultant color. So when talking about paint codes and matches it would be good to be specific about which manufacturer and paint line.

I've been suggesting this paint code for four or five years here on the Bolt and normally
do include the system. It is the offset code provided by the PPG Color Library to me
several years ago. It’s PPG DBU/DBI and when used as an interior finish is applied
with out the clear coat.
I guess I just truncated it this time assuming that most of the guys have seen it mentioned
a few dozen times. But you are correct, the paint code is for a specific paint system within
PPG.
I’ll edit the post and add the paint system onto the number so there isn‘t any confusion.
Tks
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny, I admire your stamina in research and must admit I let you do the work and than "steal" your info. Perhaps it's just the "Stovebolt" way. There are at least afew restoration shops that seem to get that color right. My suggestion would be to contact Bob Adler by phone or email for some help in this. You may already know of his excellent reputation and that he writes a monthly column," Notes from the Corrosion Lab" in Vintage Truck magazine. He may have already done an article on this paint that I'm not aware of. Bob Adler, Adler's Antique Autos,Inc.,Stephentown,NY. 518-733-5749 or
[email protected]

Yep, I’m aware of Bob Adler and I do read his Notes from the Corrosion Lab column.
And I do listen to what he says even though I sometimes don’t agree with him. Keep in
mind that he is a business man also and needs to promote his products as do all of the
vendors.
In my search for the correct engine color I tried every one offered by the vendors and
based on the original samples that I’ve found , I’ve settled on The Filling Station engine
paint.
As far as the interior color, the PPG (Ditzler) color library provided this crossover color
code and many people have contacted me reporting that it was a very close match to their
AD interior.
Color like smell or taste is a very subjective reaction. What looks correct to one person
may not to another, the unlimited differences in the source of light or the way it reflects
off the surface effects our response to a color. The surface texture, the metallic fillers, the
differences in the pigments and carriers used today and yesterday change the shade. All of
the original samples that we have are more than a half century old and have been subject
to fading from the sun light the paint has been affected by the air around it, it is constantly
out gassing and being changed by exposure to the atmosphere. The many different
chemicals that have been used on the original paint over the years effects the color, such
as cleaners, polishes etc.

So you see, the best we can do is find a shade and surface texture that looks right to us
and just be satisfied with that, there is no absolute when it comes to color.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny, you also need to factor in the human thing. While you may come up with what you consider a great color match it may not seem the same way to someone else.

I worked with a guy who was very poor at being able to determine shade differences in colors. He thought of himself as being just a little color blind.

That brings up the thought....Do we all see the SAME red when we look at it ?
Smells to each of us are certainly different !

Dan

Thought I covered all the bases, guess not. Yep, point was "there is no absolute when it comes to color."

dg

Denny, in all of your color sampling which of the rattle-can paints most closely matches the Chevy interior paint?

Some of the guys have been using Rustoleum 7272 Dark Bronze
Metallic. It's close but not as correct as the PPG offset color
DBU/DBI 27467.
I believe this is what Gus used on his interior and it came out
real nice.
http://picasaweb.google.com/103098517476416596131/UntitledAlbum02#5573664163310346418

As I posted at the begining of this
thread, you might give TPC Global a call
and see if they could put that color they
list in a rattle can. If it is correct
then you would have the best of both
worlds, spray can and correct color.
Let us know how you make out.

Denny G

I have taught art classes over the last 20 years and when it comes to color, it can be quite an involved subject. There is an exact science, that takes equipment to measure the wave lengths being reflected by the object. We really only see the wave lengths not absorbed by an object. Black objects absorb the full spectrum, that's why they get hot in the sun light, and white objects reflect the entire spectrum. When we mix paints, we are doing subtractive mixing, and when we mix light we are doing additive mixing.

A single color placed next to a second color can shift the way we perceive it. I have a book showing a color tile that looks bright orange next to one color, and brown next to another. Freaky.

I have read a lot of books trying to get my head straight about color so I can feel confident in what I am telling my students, but there is way too much information out there.

That being said I am going to use the Rustoleum and sleep well at night. I do appreciate the attention to detail for those seeking the best, but my truck already has one piece wheels, and a 1954 engine in a 1948 truck. I really do take in as much information on this site as I can to help me formulate my decisions. I would be lost without it.

You are quite correct, that PPG DBU/DBI color looks altogether different depending on
what light source you viewing in, what angle you see it from, what the surface finish and
texture looks like.
I can lay the sample plate that I have of the 27467 next to the original color that’s on the
truck and can make it look exactly like it simply by changing the angle of the plate or by
moving it into the sunlight or by using a CFL, incandescent, or LED light source.
The same set of problems apply to all paints, another good example is the gray engine
color used on the AD engines for decades. In some light the paint on my engine looks
dark charcoal gray and in other light it almost looks like Rustoleum smoke gray.

And it is impossible for judges to tell the exact color also, which means that we simply
need to choose a shade that is close and go with it, who’s gonna know.

What does stick out like a sore thumb is when the interior is painted the body color or
black or something totally off shade from the original colors.

One other thing on the manufacturer of the paints. As far as I know Ditzler (now PPG)
was a refinish supplier and I’ve seen it in print that the AD’s were supplied paint by
DuPont and that it was Dulux enamel on the Commercial vehicles. I’ve never seen a
DuPont offset color for the interiors.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

This was the reply that doesn't show up above.

Reply that didn't show up above:

So this is a contentious issue and has been for years. What is the PPG color that is most correct for 1947-1953 interior color. There was only one. Yet if you try to order this paint from our vendors, you get as many color variations as we have vendors. These days because of the superiority of urethanes, I only use urethane paint so it would be real nice to get the PPG number that we can agree on. I had an original panel scanned by Sherwin Williams many years ago, but they just couldn't quite match it.

I have a very nice sample of the original interior paint on the portion of the speaker grill that is not exposed to the elements, and was surprised at how much metallic is in it. I would suspect that metallic paint would be difficult to match with a color spectromajiggy (not sure about that terminology). As you change the angle that you view it, it changes colors about 4 times like a chameleon. If I could find a good match, I would be tempted to paint the exterior of the truck with it. I'll bet the truck would look like it was painted 4 different colors.