The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay Bad coil?

She just died on me yesterday while driving and won't fire back up. I'm now trying to diagnose the problem.

The basics - 1951, 216, rebuilt carb, new 6v battery. Was running perfectly up until a month ago when it began hesitating, lean backfiring and stalling. Rebuilt carb installed and problem solved. Ran great until yesterday when she died and coasted to the shoulder.

The current issue - She turns over no problem, I can smell fuel and she puffs a bit occasionally like she's gonna fire up only to not and eventually backfire at the pipe. The starter rolls it with or without the coil wire just the same, so my guess is spark ... the occasional puff and/or backfire says its intermittent.
The plugs, points and cap are new and adjusted and the wires are new-ish so my guess is the coil. 6v coil ran on 8v for years by the previous owner, I'm guessing its just burnt up.

Also, The inside of the cap at the coil end of the wire that connects to the coil to the distributer is very oily and grimy. I replaced it with a new wire but it had no effect. ...still thinking bad coil.

Am I totally off base here or does this sound reasonable?

Pull the coil to distributor wire from the distributor cap and hold it (with insulated gloves or some protection) about 1/2" from the cap and turn the engine over. If you're getting a good output you might check the same connections at the plug wires to the cap and also at the wire to plug connections. I used to place an extra plug on the block and watch for spark.
If you get good fire all the way down to the plugs, pull them and check the gap or if they're fouled.
Working your way down should help point you to the culprit.
I bet a guru will chime in for you soon with some great advice.
Mine is merely shade-tree 101!
Good luck to you.
Jerry

The oil in the coil to distributer wire cap would still mean a new coil is in order, correct?

Sorry, missed your question...
Is the coil putting out at that the distributor cap connection?
If not or if weak, it's very possible the coil is fried, like you suspect.
At least it would be a quick fix.
Jerry

I'll have to check everything when it stops raining.

Would the senario I posted in the first post make sense if the coil was on its last leg?

yes it could be possible that the coil is bad.. especially if the oil has leaked out to where the internal windings are dry

Its old, definitely the original coil or close to it, and the wire is constantly wet no matter how often I clean it out. Its cheap enough, I should just replace it regardless.

You'll probably be pleasantly surprised at some new pep in your truck from replacing a weak or dying coil.
Jerry

New coil ordered. Now if it would just stop raining...

Replaced the coil ... nothing. Guess I'll check the cap, rotor and points next. Plugs and wires look good.

hey i had the same problem with a newer chvy v8 with points....found out it was just the condenser , actually a capaciter ... nothing to condense in distributor...google condenser see what i mean... try it , and clean and set points too....kev

Cool, I'll check it out. Thanks for the tip!

Finally got around to ordering another condenser. Hopefully this works.

Should the plug end of the coil be facing up or down on a '51 216? I've seen it both ways.

I've been having problems with condensers on the Deerslayer's Jimmy 302. They are Standard Motor Parts condensers for the 235 Chevy. I've had total condenser failure twice in the past four months. On this particular distributer the condenser is mounted on the outside so I can drift to the side of the road and change one in thirty seconds or so. I keep a spare along with wrench and screwdriver in the glove box just for such occasions. I still have two of the Standard Motor Parts condensers to go thru. Gonna try NAPA next time as they stock a different brand just to see if that makes a difference.

One other thing to check is to see if the rotor is turning when the engine when engine is. To check, remove distributor cap and turn over motor and see if the rotor moves, if not turning, the pin that holds the gear to the shaft has sheared, or try turning the rotor by hand.

Excellent suggestions guys! Thanks!

Go back to what Hellomwilson said in the beginning, Check where you have a spark and where it may stop.

You wanted to replace the coil anyway right?

Either there is a spark or not at the plugs. if there is one, pour a little fuel in the carb. Been there and I thought it was the coil too.

Not meaning to hijack this thread cause there is lots of great suggestions here, but are all 6V coils the same (interchangeable) or do I need one specifically made for my engine??

Thanks

Kip

BlueMeanie,
Any update to your problem? Just curious how this turned out!
Thanks,
Andy

Still working at it. Haven't had a chance to get back into the garage lately.

Well, we got a warm day yesterday so a couple friends and I pushed the truck out to work on it. Everything looked fine and she is getting spark but I still cannot get her started.
I finally got a chance to pull the plugs in the day light and they were BLACK. Covered in carbon. I sanded them clean and re-gapped them but still nothing but a couple backfires thru the intake and one loud one from the tail pipe.
I also noticed that there was fuel spitting from the pivot on the carb (freshly rebuilt Rochester) whenever I'd work the accelerator pedal.

...is it possible that my a/f mix is just so off that the truck won't run?

Was it running before?

Yeah. It ran great.
The first post in this thread has more details about how it died.

Quote from firs post in thread...


So far I've replaced the coil wire, coil and condenser and I am getting spark at the plugs. The plugs were black and sooty as of yesterday. They've been cleaned and gapped.
The carburetor was purchased as rebuilt and the seller said he had tested it on a 235 with an adapter. I installed it and it ran great so I didn't mess with it.

Is the distributor timing clamp tight? If not, maybe the distibutor has moved, throwing the timing off.

Dale

Also, I would perform a rough check to assure the #1 cylinder is at TDC when the distributor rotor is aligned with the #1 plug wire position. This would tell you if the timing is close.

Dale

Lastly, you don't say anything about the points. Have you checked or replaced them? Is the gap close to being in spec? I believe it is .016" to .021". Is the clamp screw tight? Do they look burnt or pitted?

Dale

Points, cap, rotor, etc, are all new-ish and timing was just set by another stovebolt member and myself. Unless the dizzy moved I can't imagine they're off. ...but I'll check asap.

OK. I assume you set the timing when it was running. Correct?

Since you cannot check the timing now,
did you check the point gap after it stopped working? I'm not doubting you or your previous efforts, but something has changed and we need to start with the basics and work up. You stated earlier that you have fire at plugs and gas in the carb, so logically it has to be timing. Also the backfiring points to timing.

I think you may be on to something...
What is this part...
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7020/6801172421_345f7eaa7b_o.jpg
It is currently hitting the push rod cover. Don't remember it doing that when I reinstalled it and did the timing.

Hopefully I can get under the hood this weekend and check it out when I have some daylight.

This would also explain some issues I noticed before installing the new carburetor.

I cannot open your picture because I'm on a restricted PC right now. However, the only part on the distributor that could be hitting the push rod cover, is the grease cup. The grease cup is "a cup full of grease" that you periodically turn to push out some grease to lube the distributor shaft.

I think you need to realign the distributor with the #1 cylinder TDC, reset the timing and tighten the clamp.

Good luck,
Dale

Yep. Thats gotta be what it is and I think you're right, I need to realign the distributor with the #1 cylinder TDC, reset the timing and tighten the clamp.

Does it crank normaly? You didnt loose a timming gear did you?

Yeah. Cranks just fine.

Gonna try to get out to the garage this afternoon.

SHE'S ALLIVE!!!!!!

Finally found some free time to get out to the garage. ...ended up having to take a week long vacation with nothing planned. It poured all day but we got her running.

We (myself and a vintage RX7 enthusiast) redid the timing from the ground up. I was correct, the dizzy came loose and spun so we had to pull it out completely, reset the oil pump gear, replace the rotor, re-gap the points and plugs then reassemble correctly, time with a light and adjust idle at the carburetor. We dialed everything in 100 times better than it ever has been since I, and I would imagine the previous owner, have owned it.

The rain let up for a bit so we took her out for a spin around the park then grabbed our other cars and went for a celebratory burger and beer. Good times!