The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Timing cover bolt question

Newbie here. Rebuilding my '57 235, I bagged all my bolts as I took the engine apart. I'm at the timing cover and I have 12 bolts in the bag, 10 are flat-tip screw and short and 2 are Allen head and over 1" long. I can't figure out where the Allen's go (I should have taken better notes when I took it apart ... lesson learned). Any ideas? The entire truck as been a mismatch of bolt sizes so I'm not sure if this is another case of the previous owner just using anything he had lying around that would fit.
Thanks.

There shouldn't be any allen head bolts ,the long bolts could be the two that go from the inside ,bottom of the front main cap out thru to the bottom of the timming cover the timming cover is threaded for two 5/16 bolts.The bolt heads should have a retaner that you would bend the tabs over the bolt flats so they will not come lose.

Pete

Here is a picture showing the (2) 5/16 X 24 grade 5 bolts securing the bottom of the timing cove on my 228 GMC. timing cover bolts Notice the copper washers to prevent oil leaking through the bottom of the cover. I suspect the GMC 228 is similar to the Chevy 235 in this area. Also notice the tabs that are bent over the bolt heads to prevent them from coming loose. The remaining screws that secure the cover are combination 7/16" /Phillips head screws that are attached from the outside of the timing cover. I would also recommend using Permatex #2 Aviation gasket sealer on all your gaskets to help prevent oil leaks between the engine block/front motor mount/timing cover.

check for a tech tip to modify the bolt setup so you can pull the timing cover without removing oil pan.

On the 10 slot head screws;two should be longer than the other 8. The longer ones thread through the timing plate and into the engine block.As you face the front of the engine this will be on your right,about number 3 and number 5 holes( or there abouts) up from the bigger hole in the bottom.

Amabolter - I can't find the tech tip you're referring to, can you give me the title it is under?

I have it on my website.

I know I should stay out of this but, think long and hard before doing the bolt reversal conversion.
There are very few times one would need to pull the timing cover without pulling the pan.
In my opinion there is much more of a chance you will need to pull the front main cap to look, adjust, or replace the bearings, this is made very hard with this conversion.

Thanks for all the replies, I think I'll pass on the modification. What is the retainer called since I'll need a replacement?
Thanks.

well I for one see an incredible advantage to changing the bolts, I have been driving this truck for 27 years and the only reason I had to pull the pan was to pull the cam. Which was the breaking point for me on that particular project. The new engine will be converted as I intend to replace the cam at some other point in the future. I have also converted to full pressure and have no shims, so there will be no adjustment possible. My first experience with these bolts was complete disbelief and near rage that eventually subsided into near tears. Besides the fact I have never pulled a main cap on an engine I haven't been rebuilding any way. As far as the engineers at GM goes,they gave us the VEGA, I don't know what else needs to be said. Very little of what they did was done because it was the best idea, they had to please a whole lot of people, mainly the money people, and the about the only reason they made things dependable is they didn't want to...you guessed it spend MONEY on warranty repairs. Which is kind of synergetic with customer loyalty. They didn't care too much about how you had to go about working on your vehicle, as long as it was easy to assemble in the factory (cheaper assembly costs) I'm sure the engineers given free rein would have come up with something a whole lot better that our beloved engines, (which is fine, don't get me wrong, but there is a whole lot of room for improvement.
Which the engineers knew as well as we do, but they had to make it cheap to build)

"brokenhead" Jimmy, If you are playing with cams then yes it makes sense to convert the bolts.
If you had cam or cam gear failure you would want to pull the pan anyway to clean out debris from the failure.

Hi Dave, no the cam hadn't actually failed yet, one lobe had a small flake that had come off, and from appearances had been that way for a while but since I was there and I plan on keeping this truck till I die, whereupon my little kid gets it. (unless she turns out acting like I did when I was in my 20's) I went ahead and replaced it. Which you already know that story. I feel kind of left out, as I have never actually destroyed an engine, (well one of them was technically still running, but that wouldn't have been a very permanent thing, then again I only paid $40 for the whole car)
And no Denny, I know you don't have to remove the main cap to get the bolts out, but you do have to at least loosen the mains to do the bearing/shim thing, which I have never had to do and once I get the new engine together won't be able to any way.

Yes its not a difficult task. All ya gotta do is jack up the truck, drain the oil, raise the front engine mount so the pan clears the cross member, remove those two pesky 1/2" bolts at the front corners hidden by the cross member (as well as all the accessible ones), align the crank so you can get a socket on the cover bolts, and pop them out

Then it's a simple clean up the oil pan flanges (god forbid someone used "The Right Stuff" or some other silicone gasket sealer in hopes of stopping leaks,cause then you have all those bits to clean out of the pan as well as the block surface) and button that puppy back up
After a half a dozen times (another story already told) I got to where I could have it back on the ground and all cleaned up inside of an hour or two, or was that really just a few minutes? (I loose track of time laying under the truck)

I switched mine simply because it made sense and I liked the idea of having the access to the cam.

no Denny, it really isn't that much work and under different circumstances wouldn't have been a problem. Just in this particular case it was the straw that broke my back. (I told this story before, it wasn't a real happy one) however now I have the truck in my garage, which also happens to be attached to the house I am actually living in. Not out in a portable garage from harbor freight 150 miles away, in our other house where I had 1 day a week to work on the truck, do the upgrades on the house,and mow the better part of 2 acres on what could only be described as challenging terrain. I DO enjoy working on the truck but not under those circumstances,

Denny, I wasn't saying I don't like working on the truck but dropping the pan to remove the timing cover is more than a "few minutes" unless maybe you've got a lift in your garage...
The thing I like about this engine is just how easy it is to work on and get to everything (now that all the busted rusted and broken off bolts have been dealt with).
I was just giving you 'Mare' about making it sound akin to changing the oil or something. If someone hasn't done the job before or is a novice to working on engines in general it's not as simple as your "few minutes" might lead them to believe.
Plus now that those bolts are switched I can pull the cam in a few minutes which if one wants to play with timing a little makes it simpler. I doubt I play that way but I or the NO have that option.
Sorry if I came off sounding argumentative it's not intended, I was just yanking your chain.

You win, I'm outa here!

DG

Denny, some day we will learn to stay out of this hornets nest.

Denny & Dave,

I wrote a reply about how easy it is to remove/replace a pan and how infrequently people with 216/235/261 truck engines (with metal cam gear) have to worry about replacing a cam, but I deleted it and moved on.

I converted the timing cover bolts on my last two 261s 3 years ago, but I do not know why I thought I should do it. I'll not do it on my 54 truck 235 that will get a 261 cam when I rebuild the engine.

Drilling the front of the crankshaft is another matter - I'll be asking to borrow/rent HRL's drilling guide jig.

no you won't Dave that is half the fun. We all have valid points it just depends on the situation.

I have an aversion to slotted screws so I replaced all of them in my timing cover with small hex-head bolts.

I think the reason they used Stovebolts to retain the "sheet metal" Bill, was that the didn't
call for the torque that is normally associated with a hex head cap screw. Thin sheet metal
and/or soft gaskets don't need to be held down to tightly.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL