The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot '60-'66 Trucks Fender welting

I am getting ready to put the rear fenders on my 65 gmc short box stepside, any ideas on using something other than fender welting between them and the bed sides? PO had somekind of caulk in there??? ...

in the earlier years there was something like roofing felt to keep the squeaks down and was not visable. I may add that some "30lb" roofing felt is used by lots of folks today.

wrenchin,i'm sure there are caulks/sealants suitable,but I'm with Alvin on this one.
Sealants can be messy.JMO

Is your choice not to use welting a cosmetic one?

I have-used and will-use a fitted strip of 30# roofing felt; however, there was nothing originally used between rear fenders and the bed on Advance-Design trucks (at least, no one can find a part number or GM documentation for any gasket/welting). There was a beaded fender-welt used with Panel-body rear fenders.

I used the fender welting for Classic on both my '65 and '53. Stuck it to the fenders using 2 way tape. Trimmed out the holes and bolted it on. The 2 way tape held it nice and tight to the curves of the fender. I'm real happy with the results.

Thanks for the input guys. I guess I just didnt know if it was the correct aplication, I dont recal seeing it on any 60's stepsides I have seen but it could have been that i just didnt notice it. I dont think it would realy look bad, actualy I plan to paint the truck a dark grey/black metalic so it probably wouldnt even show...

Anybody have any experience with Herculiner or something of that sort? I am wondering about the same thing on my 46. I have seen a couple of vehicals at car shows that have done this - for whatever reason they were firerglass fendered. I am guessing they did it to keep the gel coat from "starring" from rocks and went ahead and taped them off on the edges as well.
Cavebull

I have some of the welting but am afraid it will be a moisture trap.

you're thinkin right Dennis, the welting lip does trap road junk, go with the roofing felt others mentioned

Bill

I saw a 62 this past weekend with completely ruined sides, fenders and steps from fender welting. Trapped moisture underneath and completely rotted out on both sides.

If welting is so bad, why was it used on front fenders, and on panel rear fenders, but not on pickup rear fenders (I am not being argumentative; just asking)?

Tim, the answer may be that the roofing type material would not "hold" water while some things will absorb moisture and remain wet/damp for extended periods of time? Just a guess.
I think it was used for anti-squeak and the felt was the answer back then...or perhaps it was to keep the engine compartment "sealed" tight to keep out the water/mud and stuff??
Don't know about the rear fenders except to say they were mounted to a more solid, and fewer, inter working pieces???
Just a guess! It be wonderful if we could find some really old timer that worked in the factory and could tell us. I'm intriqued.

...a word on the trim I used. I do not like the vinyl type we get today with the foam like filling. I used a "bug pack" from the volkswagon folks which is nice rubber and holds up very well. Check out some VW's and you'll see what I mean.

...probably didn't answer Tim's question but I tried!!

I got the welting in the first place because I wanted to do the job "right", put it behind me and move on... It doesnt sound like the welting is a good idea, I assume that the 30# felt is thin enough not to exagerate the gap I am already going to have between the fender and the bed? lol at work the tin benders use a gasket material between duct flanges that would seal out water etc and is about the consistency of playdough wonder if something like that would be good?

Is this a daily driver to be driven in all weather including snow and salt? I would not be a fan of putting play-doh between the fender and bedsides at all. I would think it would hold dirt and salt as well as anything else you can think of. If a restored truck that had welting applied has rusted out at that joint, I would more suspect the owner's caretaking prowess, more than pointing the finger at the welting. I think this is being overthought. You've got it, use it. JMHO.

Butyl tape was used by many auto manufacturers to seal fenders to body metal. My 1980 BMW 633CSi is one such example. The butyl tape (about 1/16" thick) seals the gap and did not contribut to trapped moisture and thus rust when I pulled a damaged fender that had been in place for 31 years.

One problem that I would see with the butyl tape on the AD fenders is that squeeze out might be a problem. On the BMW, it happened under the hood and was thus not much of an issue. you can see evidence of the squeeze out from the factory fresh installation.

On both front and rear fenders I have used the material roofers use to heat for flat roofs. It is a tar product and can be used cold or heated a little to mold into the shape of the fender.

pic 1

pic 2

Y0u can pretty well be certain of no squeaks and leaks with this stuff. Get it a Home Depot.

That'll happen in the rust belt.

I used Herculiner on all my fenders and any other sheetmetal that needed it. I don't think I would use it on the frame and expect it not to get chipped off.

Is that the stuff they call 'underlayment' that comes in a large roll like felt?

No it comes in a roll and is used to heat with a torch after rolling it out on a flat roof. It is a pliable tar like substance that works better than anything I've found. Home Depot sells it.

Stolen from the HAMB.

Fender welt began to be used in the early-mid-20s on larger more expensive cars. By the late 20s it was being used on virtually all vehicles as it provided a finished edge to the juncture of panels particularly between fender and body.

Beaded fender welting was available as made originally for Ford, GM and other manufacturers from the OEM manufacturer until the early 80s when they changed the bead core material from twisted paper to a polyplastic solid core then later to a poly tube. The covering remained the same. Rising costs made the OEM stuff too dear for the cheapjohn consumers of the time so other folks began making the stuff of sewn vinyl material with a tubular core. This lasted for several years then the OEM style stuff returned to the market at the higher price reached by the vinyl "cheaper" replacement material earlier. What a country!
The smaller beaded lacing was used on Fords and Mopar products whereas the larger bead stuff was most often seen on GM vehicles.
The hood and fame to body lacing/welting of asphalt-treated woven hemp continued to be made in the various sizes and in beaded, smooth and wire-on styles also made by an OEM manufacturer is and has been available uninterupted since the old days.

That said, between many panels, both interior and exterior, there was used an asphalt impregnated cloth tape most likely a commercial old style Bulldog Friction tape. This was used on dashboards, front end sheet metal panels, garnish mouldings etc., anywhere a possible squeak might develop. Often, when dismantling an original car, you'll find remnants of this tape sticking to joining edges of panels.

Around here, they call it "Torch-on roofing".

I have seen seam sealer used it that area maybe that will work.

That's the stuff

Local HD has no idea, do you have a brand and 'official name?'

Grace Ice & Water Shield (available at Lowes and Home Deport and local building materials stores in my area). I recently had my roofs done and I saved scrap pieces just for this purpose.

I too am planning to hang the rear fenders on my '65 step side soon. I have a roll of Peel-N- Seal, thinking about using it.

Anybody have any experience with Peel-N-Seal?

What is Peal-N-Seal?

Peel & Seal is a self-stick roofing patch material. People have been using it as a low cost alternative to Dynamat for sound deadening. It is available in a 6" wide x 25' roll.

Here are a few links:

http://www.cofair.com/peel_seal.aspx

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=466412

For those interested in sound & vibration dampening products, the below link shows a comparison of most of the products on the market. I was surprised to learn that Second Skin was as effective as Dynamat and cheaper.

http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/

So, to be purely selfish, I want to know what to do with my '51 3100.
I am about to put the fenders on that I recently got back from the paint shop.
The discussion about what works and doesn't is never interesting but, what did my truck come out of factory with?
That is what I would like to use.
Any insight greatly apprediated.
Peter

From the factory - pickup trucks:

fender welting for front fenders
no welting for rear fenders

Here is a pic of the original welting off the front fenders, next to the replacement stuff the vendors sell

...pic...

...pic...
1950 3100
Good luck

I installed the Peel & Seal on my fenders, worked great and was one of the easier projects I have done thus far on my truck. Here is a link, see post #105:
http://talk.classicparts.com/showthread.php?p=78694#post78694