The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 351M-V6 /NV4500 ?

will the 351M-V6 mount up to the NV4500 gas engine 5spd? I'm looking to gain an over drive with out losing my granny gear.

Not directly! Advance adapters makes a plate that goes between your bellhousing and the transmission to make it work. You could swap bellhousings, but then you will prolly lose your rear engine mount. I am a believer and a fan of the NV4500, but they are pricey, and could be tricky to adapt. What you have to figure out is...

1. Do I want to use stock clutch?
2. Do I want to use stock motor mounts?
3. Do I want to use the stock speedometer?

Those questions will answer which version of the NV4500 will best fit your swap. You will still have to fabricate a transmission crossmember to support the tail of the transmission. They weigh in at about 200 lbs.
If I remember from another of your posts You currently have a sm420 and want to retain a granny gear, and gain an overdrive.

If there is nothing wrong with your transmission, I am sure you could get a gear venders overdrive and be able to split gears... 8 forward gears. Not to shabby!

Clutch,mount's,and speedo. it don't matter mount's can be made clutch's can be gotten . speedo's are offered in both electronic and mechanical by auto meter i believe is the brand :confused: .

would i have split every gear? like a my B61T's triplex 15 gear's up 15 gear's down miss one blow a head gasket stupid thermodyn, well only if you lug it anyway :-).

so would i have to hit all 8 gear's ?
would it be a 2 sticker than ?

the truck get's driven to the car show's so it get's plenty of interstate travel, yet it haul's some brush, firewood and pull's a few stump's here and there if someone need's somthing fiarly heavy moved i'll use it.

I was thinking of upgrading from the 351D to the 351M for the exrta grunt to pull the over drive. just don't think it's enough extra power to get away with out granny low.

i was thinking or running the 351M with 5 or 6 spd in the 62 Dually than putting the 351D and 4 spd in the half ton as there is nothing worng with it but i'm sure i can get another granny 4spd for the 1/2ton.

i was told "the over drive would dog it out" or " it will revving to low " i say it cruze's at 3 grand now and with the OD it'll still run 3 grand just instead of running 58-62MPH it will be more like 68-72MPH! i'm hoping ...

the gear vender OD i've heard of it i don't know how it work's or what the ratio's are.

i am liking the sound of more power and 8 speed's
351M 8spd 5.13's 8-19.5's

Usually the Gear Venders units are a 0.8 overdrive, or a 1.25 under... they are either over, or under, but not both. They are shifted electronically, by a button that can mount on your existing shifter. I believe they are rated for duty of 35000 lbs.

Going to a NV4500 will give you a slight loss of your granny gear, but it will give you overdrive in return. The gear splitter overdrive would give you overdrive, and keep your low granny gear. It is also stronger for towing as the NV4500 is weak in 5th gear.

To answer your speed and RPM questions
http://www.drivetraindirect.com/t_gear_calculator.htm

Grigg

72mph@3000rpm with .80OD. 72mph@2750 with .73OD.

so than i'm thinking the NV4500's over drive is way too steep. . .

6,000LB's of truck moving 72mph on 19.5's with an engine thats out of torque at 2,000rpm and don't really have any horse power till 3200 rpm won't it Dog out ? so wouldn't a .80 or a .85 be better ?

I think you will want the 0.73.
For the best combination of fuel economy and performance you want the rpm while at your preferred speed, say 72mph to be at the peak torque rpm for the engine. When you hit a hill that you can't pull in OD you downshift to DD.

Grigg

peak torque on the 351D E and M V-6's is 1600 rpm. you'll have to have the accelorator on the floor to keep it moving at that low of an RPM.

i would be constantly shifting i think or getting pissy with it dogging out all the time.
But it is a low rpm low compression truck engine so maybe it rather be trunning 2,000rpm at wide open throttle than 3,000rpm at half throttle.

what about a 5.9L diesel with a 6spd ?

My $.02-use the NV4500 behind a 350. It will do whatever you want well.

there is problem with that I HATE I CAN N :mad: T STAND! the 350 chevy is the biggest pile of R :mad: D! KN :mad: CKING! ! CRAP ! ! ! i have ever seen or owned i have owned 4 of them 3 blew rod's hard core and they were low milage crate engine's the 4th i sold before it died i ran them in a 1966 chevy c-30, 4 engine's 3 year's bad rati :mad: .i don't trust them i may have gotten the only 3 bad one's out of 10 billion that were made but i still will not use that engine again :mad: .

i would thank you kindly to never bring that engine up to me again Thank's. . .


My first idea for updating the GMC was use the 24 valve 5.9L or 6.7L, 6spd with jake break. running a set of F-450XLT 10 blot dually axle's with the LS 4.88 ratio and running the 10 bolt 20 inch rim's with 7.50-20 mud tire's. . . .

But i figured i should stay with the big V-6's as they have treated me well over last 9 almost 10 year's. . . . .

About the only thing that will kill a small block is overevving, they will turn more RPMs than the rod bearings can stand.

I would think that v thing you are talking about would get very thirsty at 3000 rpms. Even thirsty at 2750 rpms. Those v-6s were notorious for sucking down gas at higher rpms. I have never owned one, So I can't speak from experience.

I say that the peak torque RPM should be your cruising RPM because it was suggested to me from a friend who has re powered a few trucks, and it has worked well for me and this f350 I just re geared. Hoverer this comes from diesel engines. Knowing that your v6 is a lower speed higher torque engine, similar to the Detroit Diesel I think that the advice is still sound.

3,000 will suck lots of fuel.

I suggest you contact Jolly, the 6066 guy, as he probably has a good idea of what rpm and speed you can run with the engine and size truck you have.

Either you want the v6, or you want a diesel, the reasons for both should be a lot different. What do you want your truck to do, how will you use it? Is the time and effort and expense required to do a non standard engine swap like the 5.9 going to pay off for what you need?

I think that the 5.9 with turbo and intercooler is a great engine, and the NV4500 is possibly the best transmission smaller than a Roadranger RTO6610, although I have next to no personal experience with either.

I am a big fan of the Detroit Diesel 53 series for pickup sized conversions, mostly the 4-53T, although if economy and not speed are your priorities then a 3-53T is good. And for a serious truck, with a front end to hold it, the 6V53T is nice, although arguably to big for a 1 ton. The Detroits are different, simple, strong, and reliable. The RTO6610 overdrive 10 speed transmission is a great addition to the Detroit for a working truck, an NV4500 would be good for the daily driver with not so much hauling.

You mention 10 lug 20" rims for a newer ford super duty, are you sure they make such a thing?
I believe they only come up to 19.5", and an 8R19.5 tire is about 33" tall. If you are talking about the original super duty's from the 80's the wheels for the 10 on 7.25" with 5.46" center hole are only available up to 16 or 16.5, I forget. However, the 19.5" Chevy 3500HD wheels can have the center holes bored out to fit the ford hubs. With the Chevy axles you can find used 22.5" wheels to fit, not as easy, or even possible for the ford unless Rickson truck offers them.
I think that the better choice for that size axle is the 3500HD or P30, and not the ford. I have done two axle conversions, both times looking at the 3500HD and super duty as potential donors. I decided on and used the 3500HD for one and it worked great. The second one I went with a Chevy 4500 topkick axle.
I have pictures of both swaps and some Detroit Diesel 53 series on my link below.

What do you really want your truck to do?

Grigg

they had a small 10 bolt came with 8.25-20's on them but they would be a direct swap out with the super duty's 10 lug 19.5's i was just going use the 7.50-20's 34.75"-36.25" as there the same width and only 2 or 3 inch's tall than the 8R19.5 square shoulder 8R19.5's measure 33.5"-34.25" depending on brand and tread depth 245/70R19.5's run 33.25"-33.75" 225/7019.5's are too short for any thing i got the 245 is the same width as the square shoulder 8R's. . . Fuel milage Not an issue truck see maybe 5000-7,500 miles a year and i burn premium leaded fuel. Power is the issue truck dose not pull much but when it dose it's heavy. I wanted to find my ideal speed then run the lowest gearing i could to maintain that speed safely I was told due to the shot torque band and wide horse power band i should have running around 2800-3000 rpm at ideal speed because at 2grand it don't have any horse power. I was told that you would alway's floored or you would alway's be down shifting to keep it rolling from my 9 year's of running this truck it burned more fuel lugging at 2300rpm than freely spinning 3,000rpm. it has 190hp@3600RPM it's only got 85hp@2,000rpm.... now the torque on the other hand 304TQ@1,600RPM the torque curve clime's fast fast haold's steady and start's dropping around 2,200-2,300rpm. now driving the thing it seem's pull good it 3,300rpm she's wasting fuel by 3,500 rpm.

so i thought 72MPH@3,000 was ideal cause i myself would mostly be running 65-68 with it. . .

I been thinking and your probly right the NV4500 would be just fine. . . if it dog's out i'll just shift down to DD . . . .

Now how much you think i'm going to spend for a 351M-V6,NV-4500, and adaptor??

NV4500- $800- $3500
Adapter plate around $300
New custom pilot bearing less than $50
Drive shaft work about $250

It adds up quickly!

so thats add's up to $4,100 in just the trans alone. . .

I bet it's going to take about $2,000-$2,500 to find a 351M-V6 that run's good enough to bother with. . . .so right around 7 grand you can turn a 58mph truck into a 72mph truck. . . .

well this truck is going to have to be around for a long long time than. . . .mint it might be worth as much as $4,500 maybe $6,000 to a shmuck. . . .