The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop '59 Apache Valve Train

Well here's a long story to give some background to my newest dilemma. When My daughter bought the truck the motor was sitting on the floor seized up due to ignorance so we were lucky enough to find another running 235 online for $100. I herd this motor run and there was no smoke and no knocks (it sounded good for its age).After getting it in the truck and progressing with the project we are to the point where I'd like to hear her run again, but i herd a tin sounding knock under the valve cover and took it off to investigate.

This s what I found

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x362/vilage-idiot/parts/IMG_1008.jpg

As you can see the front cylinder exhaust valve push rod adjustment screw is run completely out and the push rod is flat on the rocker arm and not in contact with the screw at all. So the tin knocking I herd was the screw hitting the inside of the valve cover. So my first question is why would this screw be adjusted so far out? Did they need to do that because there was a mechanical problem with the lifter or the valve?

As I looked closer i noticed this on the valve side of the rocker arm
http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x362/vilage-idiot/parts/IMG_1009.jpg

Someone also used a grinder to remove some metal from the rocker arm so some unknown reason and they did a really poor job. As you can see the arm is now angled and does not contact the valve completely. What could this have solved?

So what could be the reason for a person to adjust the first exhaust valve this way?

Bad lifter?
Bad cam?
Ignorance?

How do I make this right again?
I have a spare head that I can rob parts from (like the rocker arm and push rod), but I need to know why this might have been done in the first place. I am not very engine smart. I understand the principle's but I dont have the courage to just dive in.

I appreciate any info someone may be able to provide. You have all been so help-full throughout this build and we are so close to getting her on the road Jessica is devastated there might be catastrophic engine damage.

Thanks, Jay

it might have happened because that adjuster wasn't tightened enough and the stud moved up from running when you first heard it - the apparent 'grinder work' could be from the pushrod and rocker flailing around .... been there, although mine was a nut that just came right off ..... I'd replace the parts that appear damaged, adjust the valves properly, and try again ... don't despair, just another of lifes little lessons

Bill

HY Village_Idiot, squeeze has nailed it I think, someone didn't tighten the lock nut tightly enough when they did the last valve adjustment. Do you know whether your "new" engine came from a car or a truck? It will make a difference on how you adjust the valves, cars had hydraulic lifters, and most truck engines had solid lifters. If you don't know how to adjust the valves just ask.

Squeeze thanks for the reply. I had considered that the screw may have worked itself loose , but after seeing the valve side of the rocker I have a hard time believing it wasn't intentional. I will follow your advice and see where it gets me.

3B,
you are correct I have no idea how to adjust the valves. So a little direction would be appreciated. Also I am going to have tor remove that rocker arm from the head and the donor head as well. Good question as to wether the "New Motor" is from a car or truck. I believe it is from a truck. The numbers stamped on the pad behind the distributor are F11 30 B. Does this help.

Again I appreciate the info and your time.
Jay

Take a look at the heigth of the valves when closed. If #1 is taller then the rest it means the valve is recessed in the seat. I think this is what is happening & someone is adjusting it to compensate for it. If so the head will need to come off & be replaced or rebuilt with a new seat. This can happen with unleaded fuel.

Compare push rod lengths also, could be the wrong one on that valve.

I'll give the valves a look tomorrow and see if they all the same length and I'll even check the ones from the donor motor as a reference

OK. Well I measured the exhaust valve tops and they appear to be the same, or at least close using a standard tape measure since my engineers rule doesn't exist. So I pulled a rocker arm from the donor motor which was easy enough. And then I pulled the damaged one from the good motor.
http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x362/vilage-idiot/parts/IMG_1016-Copy.jpg

It sure looks like the damage was man made instead of normal wear and tear, but I'm no expert and I don't want to dwell on the why.
When I pulled the push-rod to check for damage as well as to see if it was bent, but it didn't want to pass through the hole and once it did I heard something fall inside the block

I pulled the side cover and discovered that the motor has hydraulic lifters and the keeper is missing from this one allowing the lifter to come apart when I pulled the push-rod.

If this motor has hydraulic lifters then it must be from a car.....Correct?
The stamp on the block behind the distributor says.....F 11 30 B

My questions are:
can I use the lifter with out the keeper or do I need a new lifter?
How do I adjust the Valves after I put it all back together?

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Hy Village _Idiot, you may be able to find the original retaining clip, but if you can't you will need to put the lifter back together with a keeper, you may be able to go to an automotive machine shop in your area and ask if they have any hydraulic lifters that they are throwing away because they're worn out, you may find a suitable keeper that way. I'm not sure of your engine knowledge, but I will tell you an adjustment method that I have described to novices in the past. Wherever the engine has stopped, remove the distributor cap, and check to see if the rotor is pointing at a given terminal, If it is the trace the wire that is attached to that terminal, once you have identified the cylinder that that wire goes to you can adjust those two valves. On a hydraulic lifter engine I roll the push rod between my thumb and finger while turning down on the adjustment screw [after loosening the locknut a couple of turns] when the pushrod no longer wants to turn easily then you are at zero lash, after that point you can turn the adjusting screw one more turn and the tighten the locknut. You can turn the crankshaft until the distributor rotor lines up with each terminal in turn and adjust that cylinders valves in the same way until you have all six cylinders adjusted. I hope that helps.

You can use a lifter without a clip but you would need to pull the side cover any time you want to adjust that lifter.
You would need to adjust that lifter by watching it. You would turn down the adjuster until you see where the clip would go and then one to one and a half turns more.
Once installed and adjusted the snap ring does nothing.