The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Which small cap HEI?

Hello!

My '59 Apache 3600 (w/a smallblock) is in desparate need of a major tuneup. As part of the tuneup, I want to upgrade to an HEI distributor. I'm aware that a factory large-cap distributor will not clear my firewall, so I'm going to go with a small cap HEI distributor.

There are a number of sources. One is www.davessmallbodyheis, along with a number of vendors on Ebay, one available from www.hotrodsusa.com, plus a few others I'm not mentioning.

The prices range from $69.99 (at hotrodsusa, on sale, down from 149.99) to over $200. Which one is best? Has anyone here ever converted to small cap HEI? Any watch-outs?

Thanks...

Chris

OR, you could replace your points with an electronic ignition system, such as the Pertronix, and use their hot coil. Keeps the stock distributor and gives HEI performance. Check Summit or Speedway, maybe even FLAPS.

cm

You might want to also consider a " crab cap " type cover to avoid wiring mess that standard caps produce.

What's a crab cap

Thanks to everyone for their comments.

I've heard mixed reviews about pertronix ignitions. That's why I was considering a dizzy that has already been converted.

So no one here has used a small cap HEI? No one? I just want to hear some opinions regarding the different ones...I see one for sale for about $70 (on special from a regular price of $170). Is it any good? Does the guy who converts HEI ignitions go a good job?

Just trying to figure you the most best option for a small cap hei conversion.

Thanks...

Chris

Langdon has a great reputation and does build electronic ignitions from stock distributors

I have a 350 V8 that I tried two types of pertronix in.

The first type was not so good as it had to sense the position from a magnetic ring and there was clearance settings and crap you had to do to the bottom of the distributor shaft. It was part number 1181 DON NOT GET THAT!

The second one is a dream. I believe it is "Pertronix 3 Ignitor Part # 71181 GM 1957-1974 V-8" It is a lobe sensing setup and replaces the points and does not require any dorking with anything. You do not have to remove the distriuber to install it or adjust it.

Here is what it looks like in the distributor:
Lobe sensing Pertronix

And when it is all assembled: Distributor and coil

Hard to tell it is there except for the extra wires ont he Coil. I cut a hole in the side of the cap and ran the wires out They give you a grommet to use for that too.

It runs great and keeps the older look.

I also got the Pertronix coil that mates to this and with this Pertronix you can also set a MAX rev if you want and also it recommends that you by pass the ignition resister as it handles all that in the Pertronix device which allows better starts.


Here is some one with it on ebay: $120 Pertronix 3 Igniter It also has a graphic that shows how to install it.


There is also someone on ebay selling it with the special Coil and sparl plug wires for about $198. I have not tried thier Plug wires.

Here is a PDF on the Coils they sell.
I think I got the Black 45,000 volt .32 Ohm Part 44011 to match the Pertronix III igniter PDF on Pertonix coils

Information on the Igniter III
Igniter III
Pertronix 71181 Igniter III


YouTube Video: YouTube Video on Pertronix Igniter III

Factory small cap electronic ignition systems also need a computer and a bunch of sensors to replace the centrifugal and vacuum advance functions. One of the conversion systems on the original point-type distributors using over the counter parts would be best instead of buying a proprietary system like Pertronix. What happens when the fancy system craps out 50 miles from nowhere, and all there is in the way of parts is a local jobber? I can walk in and buy the components I use for conversions off the shelf, while the Pertronix user will have to convert back to points or walk home. The big cap HEI will fit- - -it just takes a little BFH work on the firewall.
Jerry

I have a 1957 with a 283. It has a big cap HEI, fits, but just barely.

What might happen if a non-proprietary (?) conversion system craps out? You'd be at the mercy of finding an open local jobber, with someone able to look up parts, having the correct part number in a book, and having the correct part in stock.

That would also be a quite possible problem.

I take a much more practical route with my "risky" Pertronix "fancy system". I carry an "insurance policy" (which has a one-time cost of about $100) - a spare (tested) distributor with new condenser, cap, and points (set and ready to go). This $100 insurance has worked well for me for two trucks for about 15 years (even though the risky, fancy, Pertronix systems have not failed). Nonetheless, I could change the distributor in about the same amount of time that I can change and set a replacement set of points.

One important consideration when using Pertronix (or any other fancy electronic system): be sure ALL your electrical connections and grounds are good. If they are not good, you could burn out a sensitive electronic (solid-state) part and or have intermittent misses/problems.

With the Pertronix III you can use your original coil.
And as far as swaping out for the odd case that it craps out. Just install a set of points. Easy to do and cheap as you already have a set (of points and maybe the old coil) you swaped out. Every local parts store handles points and coils.

Besides. I have a 200 mile tow policy from AAA that cost only $79 a year and is well worth its price if you ever had to be towed.

There is no moving poarts on the Pertronix Igniter III and it does not ware as it touches nothing. It just senses the lobe going by. And does not require any adjusting of points gap or dwell just the twist of the distributor to time it as normal.

Very simple system. I do not see anything riskier than the alternatives.

Don't be tempted to buy one of the cheap chinese electronic distributors on epay. I should have known better. Distributor still works but the vacuum advance quit. I noticed when the gas started to disappear faster. It came with a "lifetime" warranty--they won't even acknowledge an email. I guess it is officially dead. I am probably going to go with a complete Pertronix distributor. When you look at the cost of the pertronix module, then add and new cap and rotor, you are not too far from a complete new distributor.

High

Barsteel, there is a forum called chevy talk that is mostly drag racing oriented but covers most aspects of high performance engines. One of the highly respected posters is a guy with user name "Ignition Man". He builds small body HEI distributors and has a lot of experience in all aspects of ignition science.

His email is [email protected]. I am not a member of the forum he posts on. Nevertheless, he just sent me some very useful information, including numerous photos, of parts that he uses and makes with simple hardware store items to optimize GM HEI ignitions. I had previously helped him with a geologic issue related to groundwater for domestic use near his home.

He's done extensive experimentation and really knows what works and what doesn't. He has nothing good to say about aftermarket ignition junk from China.

If you give me your email, I will forward his information to you. Mine is [email protected]. To me, car/truck enthusiast forums should share information like this on the science of high performance. I'm personally burned out on reading over and over about engines that won't start or are "stuck" and how to bleed brakes.

Also, if you're interested, by trial and error I've discovered some readily available "short" spark plugs in various heat ranges for increased header clearance on sbc engines. These are inexpensive stock replacement plugs, not expensive aftermarket "header" plugs.

Go with the Langdon dizzy and forget the rest. If you need parts they are available at your local FLAPPS. Tom is a great guy and you will get something that will work like it should and tested by Tom. I have one in our 235 now for 4 years NO problems just smooth sailing (as far as the dizzy is concerned).
Steve