The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay Volt meter. 1950 cluster

I am thinking of installing a volt meter in my 1950 chevy
My truck is converted to 12 volt, one wire alternator, pertronix ignition.

Has anyone successfully installed a volt gauge in the cluster in place of the ammeter?

Is there a modern gauge that will fit In the cluster with the same needle sweep?

If so what brand or out of what junkyard vehicle?

I think I would have to gut the new gauge and adapt the ammeter face to it

Thank you

I'd take the ammeter out and send it to one of the companies that does gauge restoration and refacing. They can update it to a voltmeter. Don

Thank you
I called The Speedometer Shop in Riverside California.
Waiting for a call back on if they do individual volt meter upgrades.
The guy I spoke with made it sound like I would have to buy a whole set to get the volt meter.

I'll call the eastcoast shops tomorrow.

I found a meter off the shelf but its too deep
and had to make a non metalic face, the metal one would not work.
...pic..
...pic...

If the shop upgrade is not affordable I'll still try to fit something in the cluster.

Mike did this tech tip ... gosh, maybe around Christmas (me bad). But I finally got it done (mostly thanks to Mike doing all the hard parts).

Swapping your Ammeter for a Voltmeter in the Advance Design Gauge Cluster ... for $22!.

As with the other tech tips Mike has done, he's got some great detail in here (as well as a pretty good explanation of why you might want to consider this ... and he says he's prepared for a "food fight" ). Lots of images.

Feel free to comment and add input.

And another big thanks to Mike for taking the time to do all this ... and his patience with me.

Peg

Thanks, Peg

Nice Tech Tip, Mike (DADS50)

Mike Bakken did a nice job on this one.

He saw this thread from a few years ago and my pictures above of my failed attemt to fit a meter in the cluster.(above)

The meter he found fits in with slight modification. And his PDF file of the decal is a good match.

Good job Mike and thanks

Thanks for the tip. May try to adapt one to fit my 58 Chevy.

The only problem with this conversion, and he did do a spectacular job at documenting the procedure, is that the volt gauge serves a totally different purpose. As long as you understand that, you are good to go. I have a dead 12 volt battery in my shop I keep meaning to replace. It wont turn over the truck anymore at all. The lights dim when trying. Its DEAD for the most part. It still reads 12.45 volts. The VOLT gauge will serve as a reminder to you that you have a 12 volt system in the vehicle, but it wont help you with how your truck is charging. I read his document and its done very well.

I created something I call the Start Kart. Its a full gauge system made to plug into a static engine to check it before putting it on a frame. I used 14 gauge wire just to be safe for my ammeter. So if the truck was 6 volts to begin with, chances are good the wiring to the current ammeter is 10-12 gauge or more due to the larger current required for 6 volts. The ammeter will tell you right away if your charging system isn't working. The voltmeter will tell you what battery you have in your truck.
Hope this helps.

the needle will move when my 1 wire alt kicks in.

an ammeter will tell you if some unknown amount of current is flowing into or out of the battery, if the gauge shows "neutral" you have no idea what the charging system is doing - a voltmeter tells you the condition of the battery all the time, which is what you need to know, how much voltage is in/applied to the battery right now, regardless of its rated voltage, just as if an elf was under the hood holding a digital meter on the battery - if the voltage is less than 13.5V [12V system] and slowly dropping with no electrical load other than the minimal ignition current flow, it's not charging, and your old ammeter isn't precision enough to see that - if it's reading well above it's charging rating [~14V], the charging system is defective .... aside from safety issues [not a big problem on an A-OK totally original design system], as Mike points out in the Tip, voltmeters are particularly useful for modified systems with high output alternators and heavy battery use

Bill

Not too sure about using 14gauge wire to serve the ammeter. Especially if using an alternator. Sounds a wee bit small to me to carry the kind of load that could be placed on it.

But I'm not an electrical engineer.

A volt meter can get by with a small gauge wire, has very little draw.

With a voltmeter the only power that travels through the meter is enough to move the needle, it is milliamps, very small gauge will do the job.
If you all want to know what your electrical system is doing, you need both a ammeter AND a voltmeter, that's what they do in large trucks and airplanes.

Interesting stuff. I have the two inch sunpro gauges on my start kart, with both.. volts and amps. When I just turn the switch, it reads about 12.5 volts. When I start the engine, it reads about 13.5. The ammeter shows a slight charge. This is with 12v one wire alternator and 12v system.

So my question would be, does the throw of the gauge allow you to see the difference of about a volt and a half or two? What happens when you turn on the heater motor or electric wipers? If I were not looking directly at the gauge I have, I wouldn't see the difference. Has AMmeter technology improved over the years so it makes sense to put a more modern ammeter in?

I still come back to the fact that a almost totally dead battery shows 12.4 volts. So if you want to see what you are going to get after doing the mod before going to the trouble, buy the sunpro gauge that is called out in the procedure, put a cigarette lighter adapter on it, and drive your truck around with the dongle and see what you think.

Deve, the fact that the battery reads 12.5 volts before starting and 13.5 volts after starting tells you the charging system is working, the fact that the voltmeter doesn't show 14.5V tells you the battery is pretty well fully charged and the charge regulation is working .... if you want to monitor the charging system in milliamps, go digital and get a lab quality ammeter .... the fact that an "almost totally dead battery" can still read 12.4 volts doesn't say anything about the condition of the charging system unless the engine is running, in which case a reading of 12.4V means it's not being charged - an ammeter reading "charge" doesn't tell you the battery is almost dead either [or has a bad cell], but a voltmeter reading 15-16V says it's time to load test the battery and/or check the charging system regulator function

Bill

A battery indicating 12v (12.4) does not mean it can deliver the amps required to turn the engine. Think trying to start your truck with a brand new 12v lawnmover battery; plenty of volts, can't deliver the amps. A tired battery cant turn the engine, and usually lights will dim at low RPM because the battery cannot help the high load when the alternator output is low.
Analog meters, both voltmeters and ammeters are not real accurate both in display and reading, they have wide sweeps, and indexes far apart. Digital tells you much more, but you are not using these gauges to troubleshoot, only detect a problem to steer you towards troubleshooting before you are stuck with a dead battery.
You could do the voltmeter in the Cig Lighter.
This article was to help Stovebolters that wanted a voltmeter in the cluster for less than $400-$600. And avoid the danger or high loads traveling through an old small capacity ammeter.

What would be really cool is to have the best of both worlds in your truck and figure out how to make another gauge fit in the cluster. When I was flying, I was taught to pay attention to both Volt and Amps and quickly learned I couldn't live without them. That's why I put both on the start kart. I DO look at both of them a lot. I also look at the tachometer a lot too. Good information as usual!

Deve said in his post that he has a Sunpro Ammeter gauge. Sunpro's CP8204 ammeter gauge looks like it matches the CP8205 from the tech tip. If one wanted to keep an ammeter, I'm wandering if the tech tip would apply except with the mods for the ammeter?

I would think all the same steps except wiring and the scale would be the same. If you want help with the scale we can work together (private message) and I can modify the voltmeter scale artwork.

Mike

What I want, and never see, is our original gauge cluster, but in the center of it... WAIT FOR IT... a tachometer!!!

Of all of the modded gauges out there, nothin

Thats a nice challenge. I do love what Dad's 50 did with LED's for turn indicators.

Per speedometershop.com they currently offer a '47-'53 cluster gauge with a tachometer in the center. If you get one, make sure to post pics.

Thanks for that Eddie. What I really appreciate about this site is the new information and ideas that weren't possible before. I will check them out. A tach is something I really feel is an important asset.

I added indicator lights to the gauge where the two rivets are on the face. can hardly tell its modified.

the steering wheel bar blocks the light on the signal switch most the time.

...test...

still have not completed my voltmeter conversion

Sweet! Now how am I gonna get THAT feature AND my tach in the same place? lol

Life is full of difficult choices Deve

Wow! these are great tips, as im new I'm asking if anyone knows of someone installing a tachometer in the 2inch section of the center of the fuel and temp gauge cluster, As you have done above and a old school neddle with tiny numbers it may just work?

Yeah, that's what I want to do alright. But I am not an artist and don't feel I have the skills to install a tach and make it look right, so I imagine if I want it bad enough, I will call one of the gauge restorer companies to do it. It would be a perfect place for it. But now, I have to think about blinker lights too.. LOL!

So many wires ! now to strip down the donnar trucks dash and track through the circit board and magic them to the 1950 gauges It just may work as for the aircon fan speed will work from the old wiper switch, the choke and trottle cables can direct the air and adjust the temp, but wiring is not my strong side. yep liking the blinkers DAD to keep the steel dash without extra holes everywhere and confine all extras in the gauges or hiddin out of sight is the look I'm chasing, and to think i was going to wait till i finish my truck to join Stovebolt ! loving the sight. Darrin.

Quite a challenge there.
Very impressive work on your photo bucket album

Thanks Dad , as you know the balance of getting the job done and not spending all your time working on the truck that makes your family resent your passion to your chev is harder than the work it self, I have a video of my little girl in the cab as it drove out of the garage for the first time , she was happy as I was, ill try and post the vid.

Another great tip here on Stovebolt Thanks Mike. I was all good until I got to the sticker for the face which I had printed up back when I first read this article. Kind of missed the fact that this mod was 47-53 specific yet it works just as well for 54/55 1st just not the emblem.
Spent over an hour in Photoshop making the correct one now if I can only figure out how to post a .jpg for anyone else.
Ken

What program did you use to make the decals if I may ask? I'm wanting to make all the gauges electric because I'm picky like that. Get rid of the mechanical oil and temp gauges with their wonky copper lines that look horrible. I can tuck wires in so much neater

I used Photoshop