The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline front axle swap?

Stupid question, is there a swap from another model/year truck for the front axle on a '53 3600 that would allow for disk brakes? Seems from the search I did its easy to get half ton kits, but the 3/4 ton is a bit more difficult. I'd like to keep it 3/4 ton, but I guess if the new axle was a 1/2 ton I wouldn't really care. I doubt I'll ever haul anything heavy enough in this to need the difference between the half and 3/4 ton. I would only do this if the swap was exact, I don't want an axle longer or shorter - I'll just keep the original if that's the case. Just thought I'd ask just in case, because I really think I'm just going to keep it as is and put the firewall mounted booster kit from CPP to make sure I have a little better brakes than the original.

Have you browsed through this thread?
https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=725027#Post725027
That's the best solution I've found so far, althout not completely ironed out yet.

And its not 1/2 ton stuff.

Grigg

Grigg, I hope someday this becomes a little simpler, because right now it's way (I mean "way") over my head! But, that's kind of good, because it confirms my original idea that life will probably be a lot easier if I just keep what I've got and use the booster kit with the four hubs. I know that's not the best braking available, but I'm pretty good at maintaining safe driving distances in traffic and knowing when I need more time to stop. I think the booster should add what I'm looking for. Someday, if I have the extra money, I might look into seeing if some of the pricey disk brake kits will work for the 3/4 ton.

"I'll just keep the original if that's the case."

Paul, one option you have is using asbestos brake linings. Asbestos friction is vastly more effective than the so called "organic" friction sold by auto parts stores. I put asbestos pads and shoes on my roadster and it was like adding a power booster compared to "organic" friction. That thing stops now!

It's not an auto parts store item but is available NOS on ebay and some brake suppliers still have access to a very limited supply of asbestos to reline your shoes with. Arc grinding to match your drums' diameters is the final touch to getting really effective drum brakes.

hey yar, that sounds like a good idea. I'm not too old, but I do remember my dad complaining when we were doing brakes that he couldn't use the asbestos pads anymore. So if I understand you, the pads (shoes I guess) - even though they should be the ones I need for this truck - have to be "arc grinded" to match the drums' diameter? Could you explain what exactly that means? Would the shoes be too wide or what? I just can't seem to see what that means. Any help would be appreciated. If I can understand it, I'll buy a whole bunch so I have them on hand if I can find them. Thanks

I grew up around a shop where we arc-ground brake linings. Most brake linings come from the factory with the radius of the shoes matched to the size of a standard-diameter brake drum. When the durms are machined oversize during routine brake maintenance, the linings are no longer a perfect fit to the radius of the drum. The contour of the lining is ground to the correct fit with the drum so there will be a correct fit and maximim contact between the lining and the surface of the drum. Otherwise, the lining must "wear-in" before there's a correct fit between the mating parts.

Now, here comes the tricky part- - - -the lining is not ground to the exact radius of the drum. It must be ground so the initial point of contact is at the center of the shoe. As the drum distorts slightly from the pressure of the wheel cylinder, the toe and heel of the brake lining comes into full contact with the drum, giving the most effective lining to drum fit.
Jerry

I must say that with my 1 Ton Huck brakes, I have no trouble with stopping the truck. The shoes were relined with the modern material and they work great. My drums are turned .040 over and the shoes were not ground. It took quite a bit of driving to get full contact but I never noticed the difference. Also, I have never carried heavy loads.

Paul, arc grinding is exactly what Jerry explained, matching the outside coutour of the brake linings to the exact inside diameter of the drum. The result of this is that there is full contact between the brake linings and the drums immediately, without waiting for the high spots to wear off the linings, gradually increasing the contact area until full contact is finally achieved after long use.

Don't believe anything you hear about arc grinding not being beneficial. That's the official politically correct line now that arc grinding is actually illegal in some places, like nutty California where I live.

I'd like to tell you how I learned this. I have a 1932 Ford roadster street rod. When I first built it about 8 years ago it was plenty fast but it wouldn't stop. It was plain scary. It has GM "Metric" front calipers and 11" Aspen-Volare rotors adapted to a Ford beam axle and 10 inch Ford drums on an 8" Ford rear axle. The MC is a 1985 Thunderbird aluminum unit with a 21 mm bore. A Speedway Motors adjustable proportioning valve is plumbed into the rear brake system. There is no room for a booster.

I went into a very long established local brake supply business and asked about upgrading the stopping power, perhaps with ceramic pads and shoes. The answer I got was "Let's try asbestos first and see how that works for you. We can still get it and it's way less expensive than ceramic".

That totally solved the stopping issue. Imagine a business helping a customer find the least expensive solution to a problem. Wow, that's old school service!

My restored '36 Chevy pickup still has the asbestos shoes I put on it in the early 1970s. As little as antique trucks are driven a set of brakes outlasts the guy who installed them.

Non asbestos frictional material is also a lot harder on drums. I still have a drum lathe that will handle 16 1/2 by 7 truck drums, but we don't hardly use it any more. The pads we use now get the drums so hot that they have hot spots that won't cut. There is about 1/4" on the lip of the drum that doesn't contact the pads. We cut the ridge out so the drums look new. DOT inspectors think the pads are out of spec if they can't see them. We have a grinder on our lathe, and occasionally we use it to dress the hot spots. I started driving a 1950 GMC to school in 1958 and I tell people we didn't need power brakes in those days. We had asbestos.

thanks for the info guys. We've got a "clutch and brake" shop here that frequently uses common sense when some of the regulations seem a bit on the pricey side. I bet if anyone could help with the arc grinding they could. Plus, the guy that work's there has been there for about forty years. Mind you, they don't do anything unsafe, they just let you know what the jist is and if there is an option they let you decide. Again, thanks for the info. I think I'm gonna check into finding some asbestos shoes. My dad already bought me a brand new master cylinder that goes under the cab, so I guess I might as well use it and see if I even need a booster before I spend a few hundred dollars on a booster setup. If I'm not wrong, I won't be throwing away too much money in brake lines if I do go that way later anyway will I? I mean, most of the "line" is under the cab or running towards the rear anyway.

Even grinding the hot spots doesn't soften them, so the problem just reappears in a short time. Hot spots are actually football-shaped, so the small area that shows up as a hard, high spot that a tungsten carbide bit won't cut during drum-turning operations will require a great deal of machining to eliminate it altogether. I've encountered the same problem during flywheel grinding when doing a clutch job.
Jerry