The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline Manual Transmission Lubricant

I just had the transmission on my 1960 chevy pickup rebuilt. My shop manual says to put 5-1/2 pints of SAE 90 oil in it. However, the outfit that rebuilt the transmission said to try 50 weight engine oil mixed w/ lucas additive for easier shifting. I'm finding out how little I know about lubrication especially when I visit websites like www.bobistheoilguy.com. Instead of filling my head with a bunch of information I would rather just have an experienced recommendation from the folks here.

These guys build lots of transmissions scroll down near the bottom to see what they say.

http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/sm420.htm

Thanks Brad! I'm going to go with the 80w90 because it doesn't seem to have the limitation of being prohibitive in a hot climate that 50w has. South Dakota is hardly a hot climate, but we do occassionaly have 100± degree days during the summer.

I think I would use what the rebuilder says. Then if you have a problem he can't say you should have used the lube he specified. I always use 90 gearlube which now comes in multigrade like 75W90 or something like that.

Bleeargh, one of the things that often crops up on forums like this is people writing in asking for "opinions" on highly technical subjects. What value can those personal opinions possibly have compared to the owner's manuals or shop manuals prepared by the manufacturer?

In the case of lubrication, I would give a personal opinion credibility if it comes from a lubrication engineer. Every one my own personal vehicles has a different trans oil specified:
1995 Ford Explorer w/5-speed-ATF
1978 El Camino w/Sagnaw 4-speed-90W gear oil
1971 Dodge Van w/New Process 445 4-speed- 50W engine oil
1936 Chevy pickup w/3-speed - 90W to 160W gear oil(seasonal temperature dependant)

Presumably the engineers who design these transmissions and the factories that manufacture them are very experienced in their particular products and know what suits them best. Being neither a metalurgist, chemical engineer nor lubrication engineer I'll trust the factory recommendations.

Perhaps a herpatologist will recommend snake oil. All of the auto parts stores carry a wide variety of that type of product (Lucas, Marvel Mystery Oil, STP, etc, etc.)

Yar's post not withstanding, I strongly second Wrenchbender Ret.'s advice: "I think I would use what the rebuilder says. Then if you have a problem he can't say you should have used the lube he specified.". No finger pointing, if there is a problem.

Your examples span 60 years of vehicle production. Is it safe to assume the lubrication options available to those theoretically infallible lubrication engineers in 1936 were identical to the choices available to the manufacturers in 1995? That's a bit of a stretch for anyone with a little bit of common sense. After having worked on driveline components for slightly over 50 years, I believe my personal opinions carry some weight, regardless of others' protests to the contrary. I'll keep those opinions to myself, however, as I'm sure you wouldn't be impressed and I hate wasting my breath (or keystrokes) on people who don't appreciate my advice.
Jerry

"After having worked on driveline components for slightly over 50 years, I believe my personal opinions carry some weight, regardless of others' protests to the contrary."

Jerry, my amusement is at the AMATEUR opinions on technical subjects, not the experiences of experienced PROS like yourself.

There are some really bizarre suggestions that show up, like adding laquer thinner to non-laquer paint reducers. I first heard that one when I was getting ready to paint my '36 pickup and was gathering how-to information from manufacturers of paint products and air spray equipment. Those painting professionals told me that was a really weird thing to do back in 1974 because of the chemical incompatibility yet that same amateur "opinion" still crops up regularly on car forums.

Others I've seen and heard include adding ATF and/or Marvel Mystery Oil to motor oil for engine lubrication. The big daddy of snake oil was STP up until about 1970. Andy Granatelli cleverly got NASCAR teams to plaster on his stickers and the stuff was a fabuloulsy successful product. Then Consumer Reports tested it and found that THE ONLY thing STP does is increase oil viscosity. Immediately its sales volume and stock value plumeted.

Knowledgabe professionals have a huge contribution to make to the car hobby. For example, my '71 Dodge van constantly wore out U-joints once I started towing a travel trailer with it despite lubrication at the recommended 4,000 mile intervals. A call to Quaker State about 25 years ago put me in touch with a lubrication engineer who recommended that I try synthetic grease in the U-joints. He even sent me a free case as a "sample", explaining that no retailers carry the stuff because it costs a few pennies more then petroleum based grease. That instantly and totally solved the problem.

Here in your former home state of California, where I live, there is a booming market for totally unregulated and untested "herbal dietary supplements". No physician recommends the stuff and the FDA has no jurisdiction because it is classified as "food" not "medicine" yet it sells like hot cakes because some believers swear by it.

All I was doing in my comment was expressing amusement at at the "placibo effect" and at the credibility that amateur opinions seem to have. No offense intended, just amusement.

So, yar, which post above your first post was giving personal opinions that differ from the Shop Manual or Owner's Manual or a professional statement/opinion? The rebuilder, or Novak, or Wrenchbender, or ?

Your point is very well-taken but seems an unnecessary diatribe in this thread.

"Your point is very well-taken but seems an unnecessary diatribe in this thread."

Tim, I meant no harm or disrerespect to anyone. At this point I'm sorry I asked the question but apparently some offense has been taken so I should try to explain.

I enjoy reading Stovebolt and other forums because I get two things from doing that. First is the occasional nugget of new information. Second is the amusement of "crackpot" reading opinions with no knowledge or research behind them.

An example of the first can be found on this forum. http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showforum.php?fid/72/

On it there are 2 guys who appear to have invested a lifetime in this hobby, one in preparing Chevy engines for drag racing and another in optimizing HEI ignitions for vehicles that came with them origially and vehicles that did not. Through extensive research of their own and through trial and error they have developed a wealth of information, some of which I have found to definitely be beneficial. For example the ignition guy explains how to use 4,6 and 8 cylinder HEI units in all kinds of different non-stock applications. He even explains what advance plates and weights give the best curve, how to limit vacuum advance with a simple device made at home, and which aftermarket units are quality and which are China junk.

An example of the second shows up on Stovebolt from time to time and it goes like this. "I bought an old Chevy truck that has been sitting out in the weather for years and the engine is stuck solid". So far no problem. It's what follows that seems humorous, the solutions which aren't to disassemble the stuck engine and find and fix the damage. Instead it's "Fill the cylinders with diesel fuel then tow it behind a tractor" or something similar to that.

Other examples of the second are adding laquer thinner to non laquer reducers and adding snake oil like Marvel Mystery Oil to motor oil.

Again Tim, I'm sorry I brought this up because some have taken offense. I learned a lesson.

Ray you are apologizing for one thing & opening up 2 more subjects for opinion. Many engines have been "freed up" by putting a penitrant in the cyls. Marvel mystery oil has been out for 55 years that I know of & millions of people have used it. Again it is a matter of opinion & would take a multi million dollar grant to a research institute to establish whether it is "snake oil" or not.

I'd put what GM wanted in it, JMO-closest now available is 85w90. The usual shifting troubles w/that model truck are the column & linkage-usually old sticky grease in the column or worn shift ears. Again, JMO as a 30 yr mechanic.

He didn't say if it was a 3or4 speed but I gather by the amount of grease it must be a 4 speed. I agree if I built it myself I would put in the 85/90.

"Again it is a matter of opinion & would take a multi million dollar grant to a research institute to establish whether it is "snake oil" or not."

Wrenchbender, I've learned my lesson and I will keep to myself what I've learned from my reading of credible sources of scientific information. As for the test of lubricants themselves (not the test results) there is a standard fixture for doing the test. It consists of two steel balls rotating in opposite directions and pushed together to load the lubricant under a controlled pressure for a controlled period of time. Then the wear on the balls, if any, is measured to determine the oil effectiveness. That is "science".

It's a lot like what is done in my profession of engineering geology where specific testing devices and test methods exist to test the physical properties of soil and rock, stuff that many people call "dirt". The test results are then used to determine slope stability and suitability to support building foundations. Often non-geologists dispute the test results saying "I don't see no problem. Looks OK to me" or words to that effect. In other words, they value personal opinion over test results. In America, that is their right.

I initially became interested in the subject of lubricant oil testing when I started racing off road motorcycles with 2-stroke engines in the late 1960s. Then, as now, there was a large range of premix oils available varying from the inexpensive mass produced products of the major oil companies to small batches of very expensive "boutique" oils. There were also many unscientific "opinions" concerning the best premix oils and fuel:oil ratios for best lubrication and maximum power output.

The most wear resistent oils can be determined with the counter rotating ball test and the oil that produces the highest horsepower can be determined on an engine dynomometer with all of the oils mixed at different ratios being tested. This results in a set of facts that often differs greatly from some popular but untested "opinions".

I valued those findings and used them in my own and in my sons' race bikes.

As for stuck engines being "freed" by various methods, I personally would want to find out WHY it is stuck, whether there is any permanent damage like rusty cylinder walls and/or crankshaft journals and/or camshaft-lifter surfaces, and then repair the damage rather than brutally popping rusted surfaces apart then letting rust rub against rust.