The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop So what kind of small block do I have?

Hello!

My '59 Apache 3600 is an original V8 truck, and it still has a smallblock in it which I'm certain is not original. See the link for a picture. The numbers are as follows 10C105795 (partial VIN from the original vehicle from what I understand) and VO825CNR. I did some digging, and based on the engine #, it appears to be a 1970 350/300HP/4bbl engine, correct me if I'm wrong. However, the engine has the oil fill in the front of the intake, ram's head manifolds, a manifold mounted altenator bracket (vs one bolted to the head), "Chevrolet" scripted valve covers (that some idiot carved a hole into), and a singular triangular "nipple" casting mark on front of the the heads, all of which I Understand are typical of much earlier engines.

http://s904.photobucket.com/albums/ac248/barsteel/

Any insight into what this engine might be? Maybe someone swapped earlier 283 parts onto a 350 block?

Thanks...
Chris

yes, it's dressed as a 283 or 327, which is easy enough to do to most any small block and some PO might have got a 350 short block to replace a frapped original 283 - get the casting number from the bellhouse flange on the drivers side of the block, a mirror will read it if it's still in the truck, that'll tell what the block is - see here

Bill

Chris, when I was looking for an SBC long block core to use as the starting point for building a street rod engine, the best (least expensive by far, most abundant cores) source turned out to be Chevy and GMC dealers who had installed "rebuilt" engines in customer cars and trucks.

Like you, I wanted to be able to ID the cores quickly and easily from cast and stamped numbers. That proved to not be possible to do with certainty in many cases.

Fortunately, the dealers were very accommodating and let me pull the pans from the cores to check the number of main cap bolts, bore size and condition and size of crankshaft bearing journals. All they asked was that I reassemble what I disassembled.

You may have to do the same thing to know with certainty what you have there.

Squeeze and Yar -

Thanks for your replies. As it sits, the engine runs and runs very well, so I'm not inclined to tear it apart until I have to. I tried to ID the engine because at first glance it appeared as if it might have been the original engine, which would have been nice, but after looking up the numbers stamped on the pad on the pass side, I can say with almost absolute certainty that it is not. Not a big deal at this point, but at some point, I want to ID it if I can.

I don't know how accurate the numbers are that are stamped on the pad, but they ID'd the engine as an 1970 4bbl 350 that was used in a Caprice/Bel Air/Kingswood station wagon with a turbo 350 transmission.

Maybe I should put some fake wood panelling on the side of the bed to make things match

Chris

don't forget the orange shag rug in the cab

the numbers on the pad should be what the engine originally was, but say nothing about changes that were made before or after it was installed in the truck

Bill

Look at the drivers side bellhousing flange as Bill had mentioned. This is the number that all the reman engine companies look for when determining what type of engine (small block chevy)is currently residing and determines core value on the old engine. Thats how they tell if your buying a 350 and turning in 305 or 267 for a core. Worked in the parts biz for 15 years and PO'd more then my share of scammsters trying to pass off junk cores. My guess it will say 3970010.

HI,

Can you give me a simple explanation of Short block Vs Long block? What is the difference? How do you tell one from the other?

the simple answer is a short block is the block and its vitals only, no heads, intake, exhaust - a long block you just need to install a few bits like carb, accessories and exhaust - a "complete long block" or turn key engine is ready to install except accessories

Bill

The usual "short block" supplied by a dealer's parts department generally did not include the camshaft, lifters, or other timing system components like the timing chain and sprockets, etc. It was simply a block, crankshaft, rods and pistons. The technician was expected to swap the other components from the original engine. These were usually used for warranty repairs when a fairly low-mileage engine had failed for some reason. Independent rebuilders supplied short blocks with the timing sprockets and chain, and a reground camshaft. Heads were expected to be swapped from the original engine, usually after receiving a valve regrind. The rebuilder I used for many years doubled the warranty period if I bought a "long block" with heads they had reworked. Their package also included an oil pump, a set of lifters and a full gasket set, which was not included with their short block. All I needed to do was swap sheet metal, and intake and exhaust parts. GM dealers also offered their "Target Master" line of new, not rebuilt replacement engines, which included new sheet metal parts like the oil pan, timing cover, and valve covers, at a VERY attractive price. Swap intake and exhaust parts, water pump and distributor, and you're back on the road!
Jerry

THANKS.

The CNR on the end of the engine front plate indicates that it came out of a 1970 chev passenger car, 350 , 300hp, which it probably is a 3970010 block which is cast into the block on the left side rear. My guess is that he used his old intake manifold and valve covers from his old motor.

BOYS- OH BOYS! Before youall jump to conclusions about Chevy small blocks from 1969/1971 just remember one thing (or three) ALL 3 OF THESE WERE STRIKE YEARS! A close friend of mine who passed away last week spent 42 years at Chevrolet in Tonowanda NY building these engines,beginning in the forge making blocks, then every connecting rod you could think of, this man knew his s@%&.Hes the one who told me many times bench racing, "Never trust part numbers,some parts sat in bins for years, and after a work stoppage,if a part fit- it went in, we called it (cleanup parts)" This man knew part numbers by rote-I have no reason after all these years to not believe him. And yeah- I'm a new guy here.

You do know that Chevrolet engine blocks are cast, not forged, right?

Reading ELKAY's post carefully it looks like he is using the word forge to mean foundry. Read it again with that substitution and it will make more sense.