The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop water pump headache

I've been doing a lot of reading about water pumps on this forum, but have not come to a conclusion what is needed for my truck.

I have a '50 3100 with a '60 235. Everything was installed, but not running when it was purchased. I've gone through an extensive rebuild of everything. I'm now ready to replace the water pump.

Everything I've read says I need to buy a water pump for a 216 because the 235 won't fit. Take a look at my webshots/water pump folder to see what I had on there originally. Everything fit. The harmonic balancer uses a 3/8" belt.

What do I need to finish this engine? I already have the adaptor plate. Replace the water pump with a 216? Aren't those 5/8" belts? Replace the harmonic balancer? With what? What diameter should the harmonic balancer be?

Thanks for the help. Another couple months and I'll be ready to fire it up.

Hi Dave...the early (216-235) waterpump comes with either a 3/8 or a 5/8" pulley. I got mine at NAPA...of course, they had to order but make sure they specify the 3/8" pulley. Can't remember part number.

The sheet that came with your adaptor specifies which balancer goes with which pump. They had some kind of "caution" about running a car balancer.

Nice to see you're getting things wrapped up. I'm still waiting on my engine.....have my intake with carbs mounted..Pix....Wayne cover and a 2 groove coming from Buffalo.

I figured you'd be down at the races today!!! They sure are bang'em up!!! Guess it's a good day to watch it all on the tube. Hate it when it gets down below 60!!!! Stay warm!!!!

Dave

Thanks for the info, Dave. I'll check in to my local NAPA this weekend. I read the warning that came with the adaptor. That's part of the reason I'm asking the question. I have no idea if my balancer is from the car or truck model. And I haven't seen a balancer for sale in any of the catalogs.

If you want to try out that intake and carb setup before your engine is done, come on up. We could see how it sounds on mine.

I'm not into those races. What's the fun of watching guys drive around in circles?!

I'm trying to stay warm up here. It's a good day to turn on the 1,000 watt lights in the garage for a little warmth. When are you going to drive that truck up this way? Talk to you soon.

I forgot to add that I also have a 5-blade fan on the front of the engine. All I've seen in most pictures of others' trucks are a 4-blade fan.

Does that give any clues?

Your balancer should be 6 inch diameter, 3/8" pulley...with the adaptor plate and your fan centered on the radiator, you should be able to run a 15" flex-fan....I'm using a rather rigid 6 blade, which moves a lot of air. Idled it for 30 minutes last summer, yakking with a neighbor up the street, and the temp never went over the thermostat 180 degrees. That's the advantage of running the adaptor plate and the "early" waterpump.

Think I'll wait to test my carb setup. Still mocking up my fuel pressure regulator and gauge.
They came with plastic fittings for rubber hoses and my system is going to be hard line. Doing it with steel brake lines but will switch over to stainless once I get everything mocked up.

I ordered an Offenhauser Valve cover from C/D as the Wayne covers were back ordered and had no delivery date. Opened up the UPS box Tuesday and there was a Wayne cover!!!! Nice surprise!!! Still waiting on Buffalo for my 2 groove balancer.

All I need now is my engine....stay warm....

Dave

What you need is the short-shaft water pump. The 216/early 235 used a different setup. Some of the on-line vendors sell them. Patrick's sells one with a larger pulley so the pump runs slower and doesn't cavitate at higher rpm. www.patricksantiquecars.com

On the fan, use the 5 blade if you can. They pull more air than the 4 blade. When I was young you could buy the 5 blade at any auto parts store. The on-line vendors now sell a repop of the original 4 blade.

The balancer you have on your truck is off a 230/250 engine. I am not sure what the pully diameter is but I don't think it will work with the 216 pump and adaptor setup.

Hi Pre68Dave....I questioned Steve (Buffalo) about it lining up with the adaptor plate/early pump. He seemed to think it wouldn't be a problem. It's a 6" diameter H/B and he mentioned that I should have a little more fan clearance on the lower end for my 15" 6 blade.

I tried the short shaft pump on my 56-235 and couldn't mount my rad in the stock location and the fan was too low on the radiator. Hopefully, the machined 250 H/B will give me what I need.

Dave

What's wrong with what you have now?

Not a thing....the machined 250 balancer has 2 belt grooves. Needed an extra groove!

I meant to address my question to RedGreen. The pictures he has of his truck looks like everything fits. The H/B didn't look right to me but its been awhile since I looked at a 235 balancer. Its definitely not a 216 truck balancer. Anyway the fan clears the radiator - all in all it looks like a clean install.

How critical is it to have the fan centered or 4 to 5 inches higher...???

If like he said it seems to run good without overheating...... if nothing touches why try to fix it...??

I am faced with a similar problem of 216 to 261 and would like to keep the shortened 261 pump which I beleive circulates a lot more water/coolant with the impeller inside the block.

I have a five and a six blade fan to play with which should be sucking a lot more air than a properly centered 4 blade 216 fan. My truck doen't have a shroud so centering is not an issue and the original rad has been recorred with 3 rows HD tubes.

Trying to learn and keep it simple.
Comments welcomed and thanks for your help.

Bob C.

Both of us "Dave's" have to deal with extremely hot conditions during the summer and I for one, will be adding air conditioning. I tried the short shaft pump....had problems....used the adaptor plate....had none! Plenty of circulation, no fan interference problems, can get a replacement pump locally if needed.

If you noticed, the 216 has a plate which actually increases the pressure and ultimately the flow, same as the adaptor plate. I guess it just boils down to which ever road you want to travel.

Dave

Let's see. I'm gone for a few hours and all hell breaks loose in here. Now I have too many questions to answer. Dave, I thought you were going to totally highjack my thread. :-)

The existing pulley is 6-3/4" diameter. I just uploaded a better picture of it to my webshots page, along with a picture of my fan blade.

The reason I'm asking these questions could be considered preventative procedures. I learned my lesson the hard way to always replace the water pump while rebuilding an engine. I overheated a newly rebuilt engine because my water pump failed. I got to rebuild the head again. That was a painful lesson.

I will most likely be replacing the old radiator also. I don't know if the PO moved anything to make this engine fit. I don't want the surprise of getting everything put together just to find out it doesn't fit. If I need to replace the water pump, I'm trying to find out what I should replace it with to make sure it doesn't give me any problems in the future and whether I need to start searching for a new H/B also. If I need a new H/B, where can I find one of these? Does anyone know the length from the engine face to the center of the pulley on the shortened 235 water pump?

As Dave mentioned, I will someday install A/C in this truck and be running it in hot humid conditions.

Thanks for all the input and advice. I appreciate it.

So is this more like the harmonic balancer that should be on my truck?

Does anyone need all the other stuff in the picture?? I'll split shipping with you.