The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts The Stovebolt Volunteer Fire Department Rosie pumps again!

Had a banner day yesterday!

Rosie, the 1941 Chevy/American Fire Apparatus pumper/tanker, ex. Rose City, Michigan, officially qualifies as a pumper again! It's been about 3 years or more since we started the rebuild on Rosie. The engine turned out well and the truck has been back on the road for over a year now. BUT, without a working pump. We hung the pump on the front bumper for our trip to Indy last year, but hadn't rebuilt it. (check the STOVEBOLT SAGA for the story).

Well, not only did we finish the Barton U40 rebuild, including all new bearings, gaskets, and a new tachometer gear, but we rebuilt the vacuum primer as well (the float had separated from the arm, requiring re-welding.)

Although the pump case proper needs painting now, we got the pump mounted, with our new double-u-joint drive shaft, and all the plumbing re-installed. Tested the primer, addressed several leaks, achieved 20 inches of vacuum in the pump, and decided a proper test was in order.

Yesterday, we built a "drop-tank" out of 2 roof ladders, a pike pole, and a salvage cover, filled it with water, and dropped in a hard suction. ROSIE primed with no trouble, and pumped through a section of 1.5-inch line! Can't describe how much fun it was! WOO-HOO!

Watering the lawn this spring will be a blast!

-Michael

Congrats Mike! Sounds like fun.

John

Congradulations Mike, it's always fun to play with the toys!!!

Mike B

Congrads Mike to you and your group.
I got a chance to meet Mike and the Gateway Fire Historical Society in St. Louis this past January at one of their club get togethers. Great bunch of old Fire truck people with a clubhouse and shop most of us can only dream about.
Although I "crashed" their get together, they welcomed me with the gold nickle tour of their shop and projects.(and they have a lot of projects)

Check out Mike's photos for some good pictures and also their web site
http://www.gatewayfirestlouis.com/
For even more great pictures.

We also need to talk Mike and some of his friends into being at the KC Reunion in September.

Don King

when i got the "ASHTON" i couldnt wait to pump with it. mine is a darley midship two stage that primes from the engine with a mechanical seal on the pump. it leaked a bit but had no problem getting a draft. during the first winter i replaced all the bearings and the seal and freed up the staging valve. the following spring i went pumping and it pulled a draft rather quickly and was able to flow more than the pump s rated capacity. since upgrading to a 56-270 im tough to beat in fastest water contests.

i know how you feel. find a place to drop in your 4.5" or 5" hard tubes and have at it and report the outcome.

Thanks for the support, as always, to everyone! The Stovebolt reigns supreme!

I played with the pump some more at home yesterday afternoon, enough to figure out that:

A, I think the Barton manuals really mean it when they say "SAE 20 weight oil" only in the gear case. We used 30, since that's what we had on hand, and actually, 20-weight seems a little hard to find. Well, turns out the friction clutch is sluggish to spin the impeller shaft fast enough to lock in the positive clutch, and I think the heavier weight oil is the culprit. Time for more testing.

B. found a crack in the back side of my booster tank shut-off valve. Have to remove, repair, and replace. No biggie.

c. Need to repack the booster reel packing gland. Water went EVERYWHERE!

Still and all, quite fun. Have a 12 gallon-per-minute booster nozzle. With the 500 gallon tank . . . let's see . . . 12 into 50, about 4 . . . that's 40 minutes of play time showing kids what it's like to spray a "real" fire hose. Or, a lot less with an inch-and-a-half hose & nozzle. Awesome.

BTW Don, found the copies of the manuals for you - where should I send it?

More to come,

-Michael

Mike read your PM and take a lot of pictures of your progress.

Maybe we could talk a few Bolters to stop by your clubhouse on their way to, or from KC in Sept.

You guys have some great projects going on there!!

Don

i have a little street roller that uses sae 10w for the clutch box. i just special ordered it from napa. darley calls for sae 40w for the gear box but no clutches involved.

fwiw, i wouldnt even f*** with the booster reel or hose its nothing more than a pain in the rear. when i want to mess around at the house i use a 1.5" with a gated smoothbore and thats just to wet the pump before i go to do some real pumping. other than that when i go somewhere to really play i use two 3" into my deck gun using the 1.75 tip @ . i like to let it fly. some here on the site saw it in action and stood there in awe .

for me playing with the booster got old real quick

Mike
Great to see your Barton pumping again.

When I use smaller hoses (1 1/2 and smaller) I use the mid-ship displacement pump to pressure up both of the booster reels. We often use the fire truck to water trees and such for my wifes non-profit organization and using the booster reels makes it easy for the young kids to handle the hose and get in on the action.

I understand about the P-I-T-A aspect of the booster, but you'll understand when I explain my philosophy when it comes to Fire Engine Restoration. I don't actually call it restoration - I call it "Return to Service". My personal standard is that, if we went back 50 years, and a call came in, this truck will be ready to serve, in all aspects. Heck, my '69 has a bed full of brand-new 2.5 inch cotton-double-jacket hose, 'cause that's what the NFPA standard calls for (the standard for that truck's year, anyway . . .) Also have the appropriate nozzles, tools, even 2 period-correct SCBA in cases on board, again, it was the standard.

Yep, I'm certifiable when it comes to fire trucks. For Rosie, it's a lot easier (relatively speaking, that is!), since 1941 trucks only really had to deal with fire fighting. I've got the new hose with old brass couplings - polished, of course - ready to be laid in the bed. The punch list is still long, but it's getting shorter!

Hoo-Rah!

-Michael

One thing I found out by reading the Barton manual is that on the UA-50 (I imagine all the UA pumps are the same) is that engaging the clutch is a 2 step process. Step one is bring the lever "up" about 1/2 way to get the pump spinning, then back down for a second, then back all the way up. This will engage the pump eaiser, and I imagine is easier on the pump internals, being somewhat "gently" brought up to speed.

Another thing the booster line is good for on the older trucks is when recirculating water to keep the pump cool. Open the booster nozzle, put it in the tank fill opening on the top of the truck (engine technically, but whos checking), then open the gate to the booster line. This will allow the pump to actually move some water, and not heat up the water inside the pump when the pump is engaged but not flowing water. if you ever hear what sounds like popcorn coming from your pump, your seconds away from the pump blowing up. The popcorn sound is caused by the water turning to steam inside the pump.. It's not good at all.


Bottom line, either move water thru discharges or use the booster line method. A pump thats pumping but not actually moving water (due to closed discharges) will only heat the water and cause very bad things to happen inside the pump.

If you are not moving water(flowing through a hose, nozzle or discharge, simply take it out of pump(gear) to prevent it from over heating. There is no point to having the pump create pressure if you are not going to use it.

Thats an even better soldution for pumpers that are in "retirement"..

My experience comes from the fire service, where temoporary shut downs happen but you will need to flow water "on and off". During overhaul this happens alot.

Thank goodness for experiance. It is invaluable.

Great post!

I'm restoring an old fire truck, but it's not a 'bolt. My rig is a 1948 American LaFrance aerial truck with an all-steel 85' ladder.

I'm only a few hours upstream of the St. Louis crowd. I may try to make it down there next month for the get together.

Damon

Well, progress on my Barton pump in Rosie!

The joker throttle (remote throttle) that was factory installed was basically crap. When it started slipping, and I went to remove it, it was so ignorant I got totally frustrated and decided to replace it. We had a Vernier Cable throttle from a Seagrave lying around. We were able to make it work, with a custom, "between the grill bars" mounting plate next to the primer handle. So I now have an absolute positive remote throttle control.

Brought Rosie home today, with a freshly loaded hose bed (nothing better in a vintage fire engine!), filled the tank, and pumped through an inch and a half line with a smooth-bore tip. Great fun! Very good stream, pump showing 60 psi, truck held its temp., and throttle held solid. Success!

Still, it apparently wasn't interesting enough to my 13-year old to tear him and his friends away from their board game. Sheesh . . . kids these days!

-Michael

if it would have been me, id be wanting to drive the truck