The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk 1958 Chevy Apache... What to look for.

Hey everyone this is my first post in these forums so I will try and not sound like too much of an idiot.

I have decided I would like to do a resto mod on a 58 Chevy Apache and I was wondering if there is anything in particular I should look for when buying one to restore or stay away from.

For instance I am looking to keep the original look and feel of the truck but update it so I can use it as a driver and a bit of a work truck for towing and the such.

Any of you have any recommendations such as stay away from 58s that have already been modified and try and find one as close to original....

I have never done a restoration before and this will be my first so I would like to make the first and probably most important step of buying the truck to work on a right step.

Thanks in advance for any help or advice!


Justin

I can only suggest you watch out for "rust". All old trucks are prone to rust in certain areas. The 58/59's rusted behind and above the headlamps and lower rear front fender, also the lower hinge pockets/step board. All cab corners are subject to rust. If it's had rust repairs done prior and they were not done properly they will come back to haunt you. You might want to take along someone who's familiar with TF trucks.

Thanks Yakima, rust is definitely an issue.

One thing I have noticed I was wondering if anyone could answer is a lot of the 58's being sold tend to have a 350 dropped in it with a 700-4r tranny. Is that what is typically done and recommended if you want to put a new engine and tranny in?

not "typical" JD, but the 350 is common as fleas on a dog so folks use them .... I prefer 283's myself, and an original 3 speed overdrive ['55 to about '70] works as good as the 700R4 if you don't mind clutching .... the original TF trucks that were V8 have engine mounts [available repro] at the front rather than the sides where you need them with an automatic, and the auto trans requires it's own mount as well - both mount changes require installing universal aftermarket cross members

Bill

Thanks Squeeze. I had a feeling that is why so many have 350's in them. What is it about the 283 that you prefer if you don't mind me asking?

they're the best small block design ever ... they're what was original ... they work hard, rev nice, sound great .... and they don't make'em anymore, just like our ol trucks!!

Bill

Yeah they do sound great but I think alot of that is because they are a high revving engine. I am torn between originality and performance though. Tough choice to make with an old truck if your not trying to rod it out.

JD
If you want to modify a 58, get a chevy. If you want to drive a 58, get a Jimmy! The 58-59 gmc trucks will work all you want the way they are. It is not a bad idea to upgrade the brakes. In the long run the truck will be worth more the closer it is to it's original factory configuration.

If you are looking for a work truck/ hauling truck, consider a longbed. 1/2 tons have better gears for speed, 3/4 and 1 tons have better gears for work.

Step 1
Buy truck

Step 2
Drive the truck. You might just like it the way the factory built it.

Step 3
Assess what you have, and how you might want to modify it. Ask questions and look for parts. Don't start buying parts untill you understand your entire build.

Step 4
Upgrade brakes...Dual master cylinder and disc brakes are a necessity for driving on the interstates.

Step 5
To be determined:

I like the GMC trucks myself. I have had three 59 gmc trucks.
My current 59 GMC is a 1/2 ton longbed. It was originally equipped with a 336 V8 (basically a debored Pontiac 389) and a HydraMatic transmisson. The original engine and transmission were long gone when I bought the truck. A previous owner somewhere put a 1958 GMC motor and 4 speed in the truck. That engine and transmission combo was tired, so I bought a 1959 Pontiac 389 off craigslist and had that engine built to drop in. I actually chose this motor because it was the only motor I could use to give me an upgrade without having to modify anything.

So my truck now has a 59 Pontiac 389 bored .030 over and stroked to come up with 447 inches. A 1957 Pontiac tripower setup provides adequate mixxing of the air and fuel. My truck has the very rare Factory power steering setup, so the original front axle was converted to 12 inch disc brakes. A 5 speed OD transmission lets me comfortably keep up with traffic. An aftermarket 3.70 ratio rear axle allows my truck to accelerate hard or work a load.

Please note there subtle differences between GMC and Chevy trucks. Engine type and placement were different between the 2 makes. My Pontiac engine would not simply drop into a Chevy, Nor would a Chevy motor simply drop in to a GMC. Additional fabrication would be required.

Since you are starting out, and having to learn as you go, why not learn something OTHER than a chevy 350? I just get bored to tears when it comes to them. True, they are a great, strong popular engine that can be put in anything.

But why not do something original? Juice up an old 6 cyl? try a 283 or 455 olds, 400 smallblock chevy, Caddy 500, Hell, try a Diesel!

Build something that people, will say "Wow" to. Thats the reason you want an old truck in the first place. Originality is everything.

350's are everywhere and booooooring.

Thats my opinionated .02 cents.

contrary to swingdaddies fantasy the Chev trucks will work as hard as any GMC all day long in very original condition ... both the trucks pictured have regularly carried up to 2,000# without a strain, the red 58 with a 283, the 57 with an original 235 that's never had major work in 75,000 miles, and they both perform fine under all conditions - do you want to spend lotsa money on gas trying to impress the neighbors with lotsa noise and rubber on the road? don't have to sacrifice originality, a fresh 283 can chirp the tires in 2nd gear with the stock 3.90 rear if ya wanna give it that abuse, the original overdrive allows better highway speed at lower revs and reasonable mileage

Bill

It's not a bad idea, but upgrading to a dual master/disk brakes are not an absolute necessity. Properly rebuilt factory brakes will work just fine. You just have to remember that your stopping distances will be somwhat longer than for a disk brake vehicle.

Will you be working on the truck yourself? Can you do body work? Can you wrench? What is your budget?

Bill, I wasn't trying to diss original chevy trucks with my post... well not too much anyway. My point is there are more parts available to modify a chevy. There are many more engine choices that will practically bolt in. The GMC trucks were built a little bit tougher from the factory with larger displacement engines, and had the option for economy with 3.08:1 rear gears.

As far as drop in improvement for a gmc, if you had an original V8 truck, you could use any 1955-1960 pontiac V8, but likely to only get an improvement from 1957-1960. With a 6 cylinder, you could always find a 302 to replace the 270.

Chevy trucks could easily use a bbc,sbc, 292 six. There are even diesels that will bolt up.

Last week I loaded the Jimmy with 1500 lbs of drywall and 300 lbs of other building material. Absolutely No problems merging on the freeway with this load... In fact I didn't even feel the weight till I unloaded it by hand.
My truck can pass anything on the road except a gas station. I built the truck more for working than for racing, but sometimes it's fun to mess with corvettes. :P

OK, I have a strong preference for upgrading the brakes. My first 59 gmc had the drums all around. I went through the brakes entirely, replacing drums, shoes, cylinders, MC, etc. I can't tell you how many times that truck spun on me while breaking. The non self adjusting rear was touchy, and one would always lock up before the other causing the truck to fishtail and spin.

I was driving on Interstate 280 in San Jose during rush hour traffic in the rain in my 1st 59 gmc. I had 2 buddies with me. I went around a turn and saw brake lights ahead. I tapped my brakes and had that annoying lock up. I was dooing about 60 mph. The nose of my truck jumped to the right. I over compensated and the nose then jumped to the left. One more over compensation, the passenger side of the truck is up in the air, and I am driving down interstate 280 on the driver side wheels for about 150 yards. My friend Matt rolled down the passenger window, and leaned out to try and get us back down.

Long story short, the truck settled back down on all fours, and I was able to stop without hitting anything in front, behind, or next to me. Sure the factory brakes are fine, but the disc brakes are better, and MY UNDERWEAR IS ALWAYS CLEANER! IMHO upgrading the brakes on a stovebolt is the most important thing a new owner could do.

I would not waste my money rebuilding the factory brakes when I could get Upgrade to disc for about $250 more. After all, new wheel cylinders, Master cylinder, springs, shoes and drums for the front will run you well over $500.

On a 3/4 ton, 1 ton, or a NAPCO truck where disc brake kits are not readily available, I would reccomend using a vacuum booster and a 2 chamber MC for better stopping power and safety.

Again, It is only my opinion the brakes should be changed. When our stovebolts were new, they could stop as fast as they could start, and they didn't start fast. With todays demands of increased speed also comes the demands for increased stopping power.

Maybe a Parade truck will be fine with the stock drums. But you will not convince me that a daily driver/ work truck/ tow vehicle does not absolutely need better brakes. I have been there and done that.

First off, if you are planning on doing a bunch of modifications, please do the original trucks a favor and get one that someone already butchered up. It seems that so many have been ruined in some form or fashion.
There is only one modification that is necessary and that is the brake master cylinder, for safety. For anyother add ons you would be amazed of how many things can be done without drilling an extra hole or chopping up something to install something else. Takes some planning.

Funny how I see reference to "demands on increasing speed", funny stuff there. These trucks were around in the late 60's when the speed limits were higher than they are now. Yeah if you plan on driving a road course you will need disk brakes, but the drums work just fine, and lots of large trucks still use them, and thier stopping power is way more demanding than a smaller vehicle.

Wow! Thanks for all the overwhelming advice and opinions. Thanks to the advice I have decided I want to get an '58 or 59' Chevy Apache with numbers matching but I want to keep it as original as I can while bringing it into the 21st century. My goal is to increase both its performance and safety and comfort.

Another quick question for you guys since you all seem to know your stuff. I have found someone selling a 58 Apache in CA with numbers matching and even the original starter. Now if the people are honest and say the engine runs well and has been maintained should it be able to drive from CA to TN without any problems?


Oh and as for answering some previous questions you guys have asked of me. I would say my knowledge of engines is intermediate. If I have a manual in front of me and the proper equipment I can make most repairs. However, I plan on having professionals do most of the major work.

As for budget I budget is endless over time. I can just spend a few thousand here. a couple there. Cant get it all done in one big lump sum at once but over time there is no cap on the budget. There is no fun in doing it all at once anyways. I like to savor working on it and getting every little piece right.

CA to TN would be a rough trip. Figure gas to be $4/gallon and mileage to be around 10mpg. I personally would not reccomend driving a truck of unknown condition that far. I'm sure the seller has a tail light warranty on the truck. Once he can't see the tailights, the Waranty expires.

Can you explain the numbers matching thing to me? I just don't get why people go so crazy over numbers matching. Not only do the engine and transmission have to match for a numbers matching truck, but also the head(s), intake manifolds, exhaust manifolds, carbs, water pump, starter, generator. Many vehicles are mistakenly bought and sold for a premium as numbers matching, when they really don't stand up to the criteria.

The nice part of this hobby, is that you can do what you want to your truck. You are your worst critic. I like them original, although some times they have their limitations as far as highway speed and stopping power.
Decide what you want to do with the truck.
Welcome to the bolt. There is a lot of help and good advice to be had here.
Jim

Yeah thanks guys for all of the advice. I am glad I found this forum and I can see it will be a tremendous help when I am working on my dream truck! Thanks!

I won't disagree that upgrading the brakes is a good idea. It is, especially for a driver that's not experienced with driving an older 4 wheel drum system. Mine is still running the drums, stock rebuild. Did the whole thing, new lines included, for around $500. All the parts were sourced from the flaps, rather than the resoration parts houses, so my priced were much lower. I will admit, If I were to do it over, a disk upgrade would be in the works. At the time it was overhauled, disk conversions were still rather pricey. I think I was quoted around $800 just to do the front with a dual master, and I would have had to go with 5 lug wheels, which I didn't want. There are kits now that allow for use of the 6 lug wheels, and the cost has come down.

I curious about what rear axle you're running. I'm currently looking at options for my '58 Jimmy.

Old Gold, you need to supply more info about what engine, tranny and how you intend to use it. If you are running stock your Spicer rear end should suffice.

OG (Old Gold) or (Original Gangster)
My 1/2 ton longbed had the chevy HO33 which was entirely rebuilt with the 3:38:1 gear set. The motor destroyed the axle in less than 30 miles. It ripped the axle tubes apart where the spring perches were. I now have an IMCA modified full floating 9 inch that was ordered new to my specs. The specs I chose were 62 inches wide, 11 X 1 inch rear disc brakes, 31 spline axles, 3.70:1 gearset with Tru-trac gear driven Posi, and most importantly 6 lug on 5.5 inch bolt circle lug pattern with 7/16 studs. The 3 inch axle tubes are 3/16 thick walls. I had the option to go with 1/4 inch walls, but thought that to be overkill.

I got the axle from shreiner enterprises. The web page is http://9inchfloater.com/

If you have a 58 gmc, 1/2 ton, the standard axle should be a spicer 45. These axles are a bit stronger than the HO33, but harder to find parts for. It may be possible to replace all of the guts for the guts of a Dana 44, but my rearend guy couldn't figure out how to do that.