The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 216 Hard? Block

Hi everyone, another new Bolt fan here.
I found what appears to be a 'hard' block in a take it all deal. Numbers show '52 216 but what I would to know is; has anyone run across these before? often? It has obviously been rebuilt and has NO ridge-had to put on my glasses to see any mark at all. I have seen 'soft' blocks and heard of 'hard' ones.. i would like to redo this engine. opinions?? THANK YOU

Don't know what your talking about, what's a "Hard Block"???

DG

I suppose a quirk of metal or casting that causes a block to be hard.ie not wear. It is on at least its second set of standard pistons no wear or taper in cylinders.

Two things, first, 216s are splash lube engines and got lots of lube to the cylinders, and they used cast rings so they were easy on the cylinders.
Second, just because it has no ridge does not mean it is not worn. It could have had the ridge removed for the re-ring.
It would be best to mic it.

If you were to run your finger up the side of the cylinder for the last inch or so, you normally would feel a curve. That would be the taper.

A more precise home shop way to determine appromately the cylinder wear is with the use of a piston ring.
We need a ring from the engine that is the least worn and that is usually not the top ring.
Clean fairly well the ring and the cylinder.
If a ring had .000 end gap when inserted in the cylinder and squared up-and we caused the ring or the cylinder to lose .001 from the cyl ID or the ring OD the gap would increase by .0031416 in.So if we use the piston without rings to push the ring we selected down the cyl into the unworn area below normal ring travel, and measure the gap, then bring the ring up to the most worn area at the top and measure the gap, the difference in the two measurements divided by 3.1416 will be the increase in bore.Roughly speaking , a increase in bore of 1 thousanths/inch will result in a growth of ring gap of 3 thousanths/inch.
If the measurement in the unworn area was .165 and the measurement in the wear area was .190,the difference is .025 divided by 3.1416 and the wear would be .0079 or nearly eight thousandths.
Of course the wear is never equally distributed so the worn area is not round but this is an average measurement of wear in the measured area.

That's an interesting way to access the wear Bob. Sounds like a good way to arrive at the average cyilinder wear. I do use a dial bore gage which gives you a real good idea of what the wear pattern looks like, but you have to kind of map it out in your head most of the time.

Thanks for the tip.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

I'm not from Missouri but you would still have to show me a standard bore block that has worn out two sets of pistons and still no cylinder wear. Pistons almost always out wear the cylinders; I've even reused over size pistons (aluminum) when it came time to rebore the block. Never heard of a hard block!

You won't find a General Motors block from any of their car lines with enough nickel in the cast iron to wear out multiple sets of rings. Ford Y-block V-8's, yes, and definitely the old Hudson inline sixes. It was accepted procedure back in the 50's and early 60's to rebore a Ford 272 or 292 when it was time for the third re-ring job, and unless the Hudson was being raced and needed extra displacement, the engines almost always outlived the body through multiple rebuilds with standard bores. We would NEVER use chrome rings in a Hudson- - - -the rings wouldn't seat in the hard cylinders.
Jerry

40 to 50 years ago, it was unheard of to open a 50s GM 6 and find no ridge. Now it is quite common. My theory about this is that the last ring job saw very little service before it was parked. Possibly the previous ring job used chrome rings that never seated or whatever. By the time the vehicle was reaching the end of its duty cycle, people cut the ridge to get the pistons out without breaking the lands, broke the glaze, and threw in a set of rings.
I have used a variation of enginenut's method. I use a 10 over ring filed to fit at the bottom of the hole and then take measurements on the way up. I have a bore gauge, but the ring method is just as good on an old engine. Very few engines were bored in the vehicle and most oversizes were done by one of the 100s of machine shops that rebuilt short and long blocks in those days. Even Sears sold rebuilts.
I have played with a lot of Y-blocks, and have 4 56 Fords with Ys. They are very hard blocks compared to the GM. I am not familiar with Hudson, but Chrysler flathead blocks were even harder than the Ys.
Chances are pretty good that if you are willing to do some hard work, you may be able to hone the 216 to where it is servicable. But it takes a good hone that puts pressure on the cylinder, straight stones, lots of honing oil and lotsa work.

Used a Sears rebuilt in my '60 Biscayne 235 when I was stationed in Sacramento back in '65. It was boxed up in a Jasper engine crate.
DG

WOW Great response on first post. Some good information here. Especially measuring taper with ring gap. Thank You