The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Lubin’ that Needle Bearing Universal Joint?

I’m gonna post this to a couple of groups so I can get a few different opinions so don’t be offended if you see the same question on a different site.
I think I’ve probably been in a hundred discussions abouit this subject over the past half dozen years and always walked away shaking my head. And I’ll probably hear the same arguments all over again but I’d like to try it one more time. When dealing with the open drive shaft Universal Joints, all of the Chevrolet Shop manuals call for hypoid gear oil as a lubricant for them. As I’ve said in all of those conversations, back in the day we always used chassis grease at the Chevrolet dealership and at all the service stations that I hung out at. However the manuals do say #90 gear oil. I haven’t been able to find a grease gun that will hold gear oil cuz they just taint sealed up well enough to hold anything as liquid as gear oil. And even if I could find some sort of a gun to inject gear oil into the U-joint it doesn’t seem like the dust seals would actually keep it in the bearing cups for very long.

So come on, lets hear it again,, maybe we’ll turn up something new this time around. I’d like to get it straight from the horses mouth to see what they recommend but I’ve tried to get in touch with a couple of U-joint manufacturers and they are buried so deeply in to the corporate structure you can’t get at them.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny, do you mean closed (torque tube) drive shaft U-joints? I have never heard of lubing exposed U-joints with gear oil. In fact, I have a '71 Dodge van that I bought new. It used to wear out U-joints regularly.

I contacted the Quaker State tech department and a lubrication engineer recommended synthetic grease. That was about 25 years ago and there has not been a U-joint failure since then using synthetic grease and relubing at 4000 mile intervals.

Maybe you could also "Ask the expert" on VCCA. He knows EVERYTHING!

Ray

Seems to me that only aftermarket replacement u-joints even have a zerk fitting, and I'll bet the mfr. would recommend grease.
As you know, bearings don't use grease, they use the oil in the grease...90-wt. would certainly lubricate, but I think there would be some leakage. I agree that the hard part would be getting it in there!
The secret, if it is one, is re-greasing regularly, and not over-greasing. I do it every oil change, while I'm under there...just a half-squeeze with a hand grease gun.
I use #2 grease (aluminum complex with molybdenum), Bel-Ray I believe, for everything.

cm

starfire - I've never seen an original 50's Ujoint that didn't have a zerk, might have changed later

Denny - the same "controversy" can be found on vintage Brit sites re heavy oil [factory recommended] vs grease [common] for some front suspension points .... I've also noticed the shop manual recommends the same lube for the Ujoints as is used in the trans, but been using grease on them since the dawn of time and have never seen [or even heard of] anyone who did use the gear oil, although one way I've used to clear plugs is to remove the zerk, squirt some penetrating oil in the hole, replace the zerk and hold pressure on it with a grease gun for awhile - pete and repeat

Bill

IMO, there's no way any oil would stay in an open driveline u-joint spinning 2500rpm+. Big truck hub oil might come close to staying in. I've never used or seen used anything other than chassis grease-I've worked at service stations, big truck garages, stealerships, independent repair shops, now a parts store.

Maybe they spec'd oil so the joints would simply wear out sooner, kinda like the Dex-Cool antifreeze specs...planned obsolescence

I use JT6 Mystic in everything.

I use JD grease on everything. I don't know exactly what they call it, I think it is polyurea grease and it doesn't get hard like some grease. It is recommended for greasable sealed bearings. It isn't the cheapest grease, but it works for everything.

In the 50's we had two types of grease; soap based grease and the fiberous grease that was used in wheel bearings. Neither one of them was recommended for U joints. Alemite and probably other manufactures made a pump that would pump mineral oil under pressure. Oil was carefully pumped into the fitting. Care had to be taken to keep from blowing the seal. We lubed our vehicles once or twice a week in the 50's. Those days are now long gone. We use moly grease in our U-joints and grease them every 25,000 miles. There is no such thing as big truck hub oil. The few trailers that still run oil use plain old gear lube. Semi fluid synthetic such as Mobil Lith 007 has pretty much the standard of the industry. Unless a seal goes out, we remove the hub caps about every 50,000 miles and pump in about a 1/4 of a cup full into the cavity. On our newer equipment, we now use Spicer SPL U joints that carry a 100,000 lubrication recommendation. http://www2.dana.com/pdf/J3295-2-DSSP.pdf

So this is the real story, very interesting. I have read that thing in the manual about not using soap base grease and wondred what the heck they were talking about.

This is sold as hub oil http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=35&catid=13&loc=show&headTitle= - Lucas Hub Oil


I sell quite a bit.

Lucas is for hubs with leaking seals. If you use a semi fluid synthetic grease like Mobilith 007 in the first place, you don't need that over priced stuff.

Truckernix, during the 50's cars would line up at gas stations to get their cars greased because the water washed the soap based grease out. The trouble is that Texas had a terrible drought in the 50's and it hardly ever rained. Maybe thats why the town I live in had 40 something gas stations in the 50's and now has only 14.

This is interesting history. My how things have changed!

Hey Ken, those were service stations in the 50's the cars now don't need service. Drive them 100,000 miles now days and never open the hood. No grease fittings anymore so no need for those grease racks either.
Most people I know that are younger than me can't understand why I spend so much time under my truck, guess they were all brought up with the modern stuff. Hell of an age we're living in isn’t it!

If I see an odd old grease guns at a garage sale or junk (antique) shop I'll drag it home. Here's one that I've had for many years and if the plunger seals inside were new again it might just hold a #90 transmission fluid.

Lets see, about 90% of the replies are going by gut instinct that if there is a grease fitting, then it should be greased! And that’s about what I’ve done for the past half century of my 68 years, but for the life of me, I still can't figure out why GM instructed: "Lubricate joints with transmission lubricant." when applied to the reassembly of the open drive lines.

Then even more detailed instruction in the Shop Service Manual under General Lubrication 0-6, here, take a look:
CAUTION: Under no circumstances should any of the soap type lubricants such as chassis lubricant, fibrous universal joint lubricants, etc., be used in lubricating either the enclosed bushing type universal of the needle bearing type.
It’s obvious that you wouldn’t want to use a soap type lubricant where it can be washed away form a bearing surface, but a water resistant grease, why not???? Man I gotta get hold of someone at SKF or Spicer or Precision or how bout Strange, they’re right here a few miles down the road. Humm, wonder if I could get past the receptionist and talk to one of their engineers.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny, my father started selling lubricants before I was born, and I still sell them. In the 50's, there simply wasn't a grease that would work in a U-joint. I'm sure you still remember the alternative which was the stringy stuff we put in wheel bearings. Mineral oil didn't stay in them very long, but that's all we had. I think it was the late 50's or early 60's when modern type of greases came out and made the mid 50's maintenance manuals obsolete. I don't remember if I was in junior high or high school when we got grease that would last a month. It wasn't near as good as what we have now, but it was a difference of day and night compared to what we had just a few years earlier. I was a senior in 62. I doubt if you will find anyone at the U-joint manufacturers who doesn't think that Columbus brought a tube of moly or lithium grease with him.

Class of '60' here Ken, and I was twisting wrenches with dad the mechanic and big brother the hot rodder long before I hit high school. When I got my own cars I used Lubriplate for dang near anything, lots of military surplus lithium grease left over from the war. I used it as wheel bearing grease for many years without any problems and packed it into guns for u-joints and chassis jobs and again, never having a problem with any of them.
All told I'm probably still gonna keep on doin' just what I've been doing for a half century, that is, rolling over to the u-joints with the grease gun after I get the spring bushings.
For the last 20 years or so I'v been stocking up on Mystik lubricants from the Farm & Fleet stores out here. One is probably as good as the other it seems. The really important thing is that you do keep them lubed on a regular schedule.
Think this one's about run it's course don't you?
Denny G

I remember that grease Cren, from hangin out at the old shop my Dad had his taxis serviced in the 50's, almost like gooey oakum when it was dug outta the hubs those taxis were mostly 52/3 Chevs and went to the shop by the clock like the book called for, for lube service and tuneups, ol Fred The Wrench took pretty good care of them

Bill

There were several lubricants that were used during the War that did not become commercially available until long after the War. Among them was lithium grease, rust preventing penetrating oil and synthetic oils and zinc. Airplane engines actually used synthetic oils. Most of these innovations did not become commercially available until the patent expired.

I think the reference to "enclosed" might refer to the torque tube. It also mentions the "bushing type or needle bearing type". My 38 Master has a bushing type universal and a couple of years later they switched to the needle bearing type, in the torque tube.

The 1955-1959 100 thru 500 series GMC maintenance manual calls for multi purpose gear lube in all U-joints. There were no more torque tubes by then.

'54 3600 and larger were all open drive shaft only the 1/2 ton kept the torque tube till '55 2nd.
And Fred, the references were from the 3/4 ton section of the 1954 shop manual.
DG

Denny, the valves in the LeBlond aircraft engine that was in my Rearwin did not have full pressure oil to them. Used the Farm and Fleet mystic grease. Worked good. No forced landings.

Weeds

Well [censored] I just thought I'd see any thing new would pop up on this subject but nothing has changed. I've been using chassis grease for more than half a centurey so I'll just keep it up. One day we will get a lubrication engineer looking in and he'll clear this up once and for all.
Sometime I wonder how any of those old planes survived, I'm sure there were plenty of forced landings back in the day. My flying days are behind me now. Last of the hobby is my collection of Sport Aviation magazines from #1 thru the 90's and into the 2000's. That's when I finally gave up the dream, turned in my EAA membership and started in seriously thinking about selling the planes.
Airplane Hanger is now an Auto Shop and I'm enjoying it more then I ever did the flying.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL