The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop Order of operation for patch panels

I am about to start replacing patch panels on my 41 chevy 1/2 ton. I need to do the lower cowl on both sides and both lower door skins and lower frames. My question is, which ones should I do first, should I do the doors and then match them to the cowls or do the cowls then match the doors to them? Dave

I would do one at a time remove one replace it with the new one and make sure it fits very close to the original panel.Measure and measure again make good reference marks as you go ,take your time until you get a good system down.Hope that helps.

I understand that I need to do lots of fitting and measuring, but, where should I start, doors or cowls? Dave

Unless you have sheetmetal flopping around in the breeze I don't think it matters. Start with the doors and fit them to the cowls then do the cowls and match them to the doors or visa-versa. A contour is a contour and as long as you don't try doing both at the same time, one remains constant.

OK

Homer52, are you going to weld these panels in with the intention of completing the job without bondo? I ask because I did that job on my '36 Chevy pickup when I restored it in the early 70's.

If you're interested I can share what I learned.

If you're an experienced body repairman please excuse my intrusion.

I'm going to try and do it with no bondo, I need to practice up with my tig welding on thin material before I start. I'm all ears, I would like any advice, pictures, whatever you can provide to help me. By the way this is my first try at body work, hopefully not my last. Dave

An old bodyman who has shared some tips with me always preached - fit everything to the doors. So...that was his advice.

Sounds good to me.

Dave, if you don't mind maybe we should handle this with regular email. I actually suceeded in doing what you are going attempt working on my '36 Chevy pickup in the early 70's. What I will have to say will sound like self promotion to some but I'm not a body repair man, I'm a geologist.

It's really refreshing to hear from somebody who wants to master one of the most difficult skills in the car hobby, body repair without bondo.

Ray email [email protected]

I would like to read what you have to say.

Homer52, if you could, please submit pics and lessons learned from your experience with patch panel replacement. I have a '41 3/4 ton that needs the same work done. So, I am very interested in how it works out for you. I won't be working on the body until this coming spring. BTW, do you have your panels yet? If so, where did you get them? I need both lower cowls, a driver side lower door skin, and passenger side cab corner. Hopefully that is all I will need. I won't know until I have it blasted. So, again, please keep us posted on your progress. Thanks!
Dan

Some pictures on my 4t6 body repair start here. Maybe will give you some ideas. Have fun and good luck
Dan

Dan, I got my panels from Ray Stanley, he sells to Jim Carter but you can order directly from him. Here is his e-mail address [email protected]

Dave

Thanks a million Dave and Dan! Let us know your progress.

Dan

EnigmaT120, as you requested here is what I had to say about welding in patch panels. This information is offensive to some people because it conveys the clear message that bondo is for plastering, not for auto body restoration.

"Dave, welding the extremely thin sheet metal that is used in body panels is something that should be practiced on scraps before any actual body panels are welded. I have done a lot of it on my '36 pickup with oxy-acetylene equipment in the 70's because I did not have tig then.

Welding body metal causes tremendous warping and controlling that warping is the challenge. It cannot be totally eliminated, just minimized. Warping that remains when the welding is complete is removed by metal straightening and shrinking.

The welding steps are as follows:

1.Trim the pieces to be welded to a perfect fit for butt welding.

2. Place wet towels on both sides of the area to be welded to keep the panels cool outside of the weld area.

3. Make MANY very small tack welds along the seam at about 1 inch intervals. After each tack weld, cool the area with the towels.

4.Even with this many tack welds the actual weld will warp and will have to be done in short sections of a couple of inches. After welding each short section cool the weld and the whole panel.

5. When the weld is complete it will be worked with a hammer and dolly to remove the waves and irregularaties.

6. Then the whole panel will probably require work with hammers and correctly shaped dollies to restore the correct contour.

7. There will probably be some expansion of the panel that can only be removed by metal shrinking. That is a tricky procedure that I can only explain by actually demonstrating it or by making a series of sketches. I have no computer skills so I can only send the sketches on regular email after I get my wife to scan them.

What I have described above is, like so many skills, simple once you know how. But, like learning tig welding, a lot of practice is required and the first attempts are a real mess."

Ray,

No offense taken here. Thanks for posting it on the forum so I could see it too.

You are welcome Peter.

This forum is unique in that people here are interested in how to actually do these kinds of difficult tasks. I belonged to an international "Vintage" Chevy club for over 40 years and almost nobody was interested in learning the difficult to master skills like body repair without bondo, painting and mechanical tasks like setting up differntial ring gear and pinion sets. They simply "Took it to the shop" to get that done. Here on Stovebolt that kind of stuff is part of the daily discussions.

It's nice to be able to pass on what others taught me decades ago. Most important is the concept that it can be done. An old timer said to me 35+ years ago regarding body repair and painting of my '36 Chevy pickup "YOU WON'T LEARN ANY YOUNGER". If I knew how, I would post pictures here of what that 35 year old restoration looks like today to show others that a motivated amateur can indeed get 'er done.

Thanks Yar.

"1.Trim the pieces to be welded to a perfect fit for butt welding."

So you are aiming for no gap at all between the patch panel and the body? I need to practice some metal shrinking....

Yes, you should trim the panels so they yield a no to very little gap.

Since you are Tig welding, if you take the time and fit the panels right with no gap the best option is to fusion weld. Fusion weld means no filler rod. By using no filler, the warpage is far more constant and easier to correct later.