The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Panels 'N Burbs Original headliner question

I have a 51 GMC burb. On the 2nd panel of the headliner, the one over the heads of the driver and passenger, are 4 "buttons, perfectly spaced about 14" apart from each other in a perfect square. They are in the exact center of the headliner panel. Has anyone else seen these "buttons" before on an original headliner? It appears that they are there for additional strength and are probably attached to something-I just won't know until the headliner comes down.

There are metal supports attached to those buttons,they help reinforce the headliner.

Tim

How many metal rails go across the roof to hold up the headliner?? mine was mostly hanging and missing and i have 3 metal rails spaced out id call it every other rib is this correct or are they saposed to be every rib?

Bowtietim, what make and year burb did you see them on?
Tony, There are 5 headliner pieces. 4 standard bows. And they are of different lengths, so they are not interchangeable. The flange and screw holes point to the front of the truck.

This is interesting. K10 and bowtietim have observed the same thing. When I got my Suburban in 1971, the headliner was tattered and I mostly only had the bows in place.

The bows that attach to the buttons: do they run front-to-back or side-to-side? Do they attach to metal on each end of the bow?

If SI47gmc reads this post: does your GMC have these buttons?

Do those 5 start count up by the windshield?? i was only counting mine in the rear cargo area? does anyone have pics of a og or restores to stock suburban roof/headliner

There is five visible bows,these are in between the head liner panels.

I have six non visible supports that attach to the buttons you speak of.These supports run front to back "bumper to bumper".

I asked what they were on 10/26/2009. question

Here is a picture of four of them . hidden supports

I will take some more pictures of them and post them tonight.

Thanks,Tim

I can make out 3 of the 4 buttons in your picture. (2 on the bottom piece, and one on the 2nd from the top piece)
So do those tie into the side to side roof structural ribs (going front to rear)?
And if so, why are there 4 of these and not just 2? Where do the others go that don't have the buttons?

Pierce, if you're reading this, you better get your wallet out.

K10,these came out of my 1951 Chevrolet suburban.

These supports do rest in between the headliner bows.The brass fasteners mount through the cardboard headliner to the supports.Each support has two fasteners,they look like paper fasteners.The head on the fasteners are just under 7/16" dia(27/64") and are 1 1/4" long.

The two short supports measure 21 3/8" end to end.
The four long supports measure 29 1/4" end to end.

Here are some better pictures for you to look at.


support pic #1
support pic#2
fastener pic#1
fastener picture#2

Hope this helped you out.

Thanks,Tim

Heres pics of my 49 burban roof/headlinder area i just took today counting the very rear bow i count 5?
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k237/bigtony55/100_5018.jpg
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k237/bigtony55/100_5023.jpg
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k237/bigtony55/100_5021.jpg
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k237/bigtony55/100_5020.jpg
very rear bow at clam shell
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k237/bigtony55/100_5022.jpg

Here are some photos of headliner panels in a 1954 Chevrolet Suburban.

bigtony55 - your bows are like mine.

bowtietim's bows are not like mine.

Ok, so how are all 6 "mini-supports" arranged in the roof?
2 long ones going front to back between the major ribs for panel number 2(from the front). That would give you all four buttons and the support for the 2nd headliner piece.
Where are the next 2 long ones located? And finally, where are the short ones located. Do they support the interior light, perhaps?

(Apologies for my re-numbering the panels from the front, in conflict from Tim's numbering from the rear. The installation would start at the rear due to the manner in which the bows are laid out. But if you've been following the discussion so far, it should still be clear as to what is being called out as far as ceiling panel numbers.)

Ok good thanks and NICE pics is Jim Carter the only one who offers head liners?? i see your didnt fit the best

Classic Parts now sells headliners. I have a set but I have not unpacked them.

Tim Lederman,are the bows of a 1947-1953 suburban different than of 1954-1955.1 ? My bows look just like bigtony55 bows.

K10,I want to say the short ones were close to the dome light.I can't remember,I'll have to look at some photos I took before removing what headliner was there.all six supports are hidden in the roof like you stated,the button heads were painted the color of the headliner.

Mike Taylor at Jim Carters has the corrected pattern for these headliners.Maybe he will chime in and tell us about it.

Tim,

I have no brass buttons in any of my bows. And I have no short strips (cross strips? mini strips?) as shown in your photos of the strips.

Without seeing lengths and the bends at the edges, I now hesitate to say whose bows look alike. All I know is that bigtony55's are in place where my bows are. And, I have no "cross strips" ("mini strips") or buttons (and I see no cross strips and buttons in bigton55's bows/headliner).

Your four "long bows" look be like mine.

Have you posted photos of your headliner in place (with the buttons in place)?

As I posted earlier, this is interesting.

Looks to me like some aftermarket farmer style repairs going on to reinforce headliners to keep the sagging to a minimum.

Those brass buttons and braces do not look like a factory item.

K10 looks like you better get your wallet out....

Part of my headliner was fallen down when I bought it.I do have a photo that show the buttons in place,you really have to look to see it.Zoom in and look to the left of the red lines I painted.It is on the second headliner cardboard just in front of the dome light. support buttons

Bigtony55,look at your cardboard just in front of the dome light,see the buttons you have ?

K10,so you have the same supports as I do ? I hope Mike Taylor chimes in on this subject,he knows all about it.

Thanks,Tim

Ill try and make it back to my storage tomorrow and confirm if those are really bottuns i never looked for them or nitced them to you pointed them out

There are supports behind those buttons in the roof "hidden".I will be watching your posts.

Thanks,Tim

Phillip,looking at your photo titled dome lamp,looks like some buttons to me.Are you sure you didn't throw them away with the headliner ? buttons visible

Thanks,Tim

I only see a hole in the photo you linked to above. No buttons were in my headliner and no braces.

I did however have a bunch of mouse turds and [censored] stains, lol!

Yes I do have the braces. I'll be taking down my original headliner soon and will document the brace locations. I have an extra set of braces( that came out of a junk Chevy burb, and it had the buttons as well.
Phil, you're reaching here. And i hope for your credit card, 'cause it's gonna cost you.:)

Here is a interior picture of a 1951 clamshell suburban I'm trying to buy,it has the rear seats in it.If you look at the seat,parts of the headliner has fell onto it.There are supports attached just like ours have.
support braces


Tim

It has been somewhat enjoyable seeing people calling each other names in a very civil fashion (and most likely reading each others posts in mild disbelief).

There is a chance that we may all be correct (and/or are understandably confused). Check out 16.742 PANEL Top-Lining, (Fiber Board) (in the Master Parts Catalog).

1954/55 is of course a different part number (due to the front windshield change); however, there are three different earlier combination of roof liners: 47-50, 50-53, and a center-rear panel than changed sometime in 49-50.

Look at the note below that section: installation from front-to-back OR from back-to-front changed sometime in 1950.

Now, let's see if someone can find a listing in the MPB for the bows/retainers?

Looks like they are in the 23.37's. Still looking.

No ticket no laundry!!!

Ive been looking too,no luck yet,still hunting.

He's offering to do our laundry,LOL !!!!!!!


Tim

Ok here some pics i just went and took
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k237/bigtony55/100_5048.jpg
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k237/bigtony55/100_5055.jpg
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k237/bigtony55/100_5058.jpg
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k237/bigtony55/100_5059.jpg
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k237/bigtony55/100_5056.jpg
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k237/bigtony55/100_5060.jpg

how's 23.3680 sound?
And 23.3700 has all the headliner pieces.

where do you find the 23.3680 and 23.3700 numbers ? Do you have a link to the page ?


Tim

That's from a 1939 to 54 GMC master parts book.(illustrated)

Is there any online versions available ?

Tim,

Here is a directory of scans of pertinent pages from a GMC Master Parts Book: misc GMC headliner scans

NOTE: 1662 & 1663 are (I think) the model designations for Suburbans (end-gate & rear doors)

The information in section 23.3700 gives information similar to that found in the Chevrolet MPB.

However, there is an interesting diagram of a COE headliner on page 461. The front-to-back bars on one piece of headliner appears to be part of the headliner. If that is the case, there might not be separate part numbers for those metal reinforcing bars?

23.3680 is FASTENER - TOP LINING PANEL (FRONT AND REAR) and is used on 1662 & 1663 (I have no idea what this refers to - no diagram).

K10 and I have a wager that his hokey braces and push buttons are not from the factory, and there is a steak dinner at hand over this one. At the rate I am going I will be buying steak for K10 and I already owe Lederman beer at Macungie next June....

So far it looks like 51 'Burbs MIGHT have come with the braces and buttons.

Yeah Tim, I saw those braces on the illustration for the one the COE headliner as well. The buttons look like the little brass thingies you get at Staples to put your papers together. My old MPB has some silver buttons in the binding that look like the ones on my headliner! Go figure.
Pierce, you're done. It's over.

Four of my braces were in the cargo area of my suburban,the previous owner kept them.Two of the braces I took out with the remaining headliner.My question is,are there six total braces to each suburban ?

Oh,the same farmer must have owned all of our suburbans,LOL !!!!!!!!!

Thanks,Tim