The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline Auto tranny on a '59 Apache w/235

I had this posted in another forum on this site and it was sugguested that I should post it here as well. Hope you dont mind.




As some of you know I have been working on a '59 Apache with my daughter, trying to make it a daily driver for her. I had planned to install the origional running 235 int the truck with a th350 transmission. I went to order the tranny adapter from Stovebolt Engine Co. and once we got to discussing the installation he advised against using the th350. He said there wasnt much of a first gear and I would not be happy with the performance. Could someone elaborate on this please? he suguested a 200r4 or a 700r4 with the over drive to make it more driveable at highway speeds which I understand , but I thought I would be ok for the rural in town driving getting the daughter back and forth to school and work I wasn't concerned.And I was under the impression that the OD was not an issue with larger diameter rims and a gear change in the rear. Could someone please point me in a good direction. And to all the pureists out there I would have considered leaving the three on the tree, but a 16 yo girl with manual steering and manual brakes didnt need to worry about the thingie on the steering wheel that made it go.

Also could someone please educate me on a Power Glide? wasnt it a 2-speed hi-low that was an option on the trk?

bet she could learn the stick real quick, she would have less time to text.......lol

a lot of us timers did not have a choice and we made it ok

The Powerglide was used in the passenger cars, not trucks. It was an extremely heavy cast iron 2-speed, "too-low" and "too-high" on the gear ratios! Not a good choice for a daily driver! I respectfully disagree with your advisor about the TH-350- - - -it's a very rugged and reliable transmission without all the throttle pressure adjustment issues of the TH-700/RL-60 transmissions. The 700 does have overdrive, which makes the stock 3.90:1 rear end a little more highway-friendly. Unless your girl plans to do a lot of highway-speed driving, I'd reccomend going with the 350 trans.
Jerry

Well I appreciate the input. I will proceed with the 350. there's gonna be a whole lot more questions come up once the adapter plate shows up so stay tuned. I know nothing about transmissions and such, but what better place to learn than on someone-elses truck. I'm just glad she doesn't read these posts. You guys make my little girl think her dads not so dumb after all ;-)

Wondering how the turbo 350 adapter/install has gone, looking to do the same thing, will be ordering the adapter kit from buffalo enterprises.

I got mine from Stove Bolt engine Co. Everything fits, but i need to remove some of the meat from the rear of the motor since the casting does not clear the flex plate. I'm not happy with the instructions, but i guess if I get stuck he will need to provide telephone support. It will be another week or so b-4 i get it assembled. Stove Bolt was cheaper than the Buffalo enterprises adapter. I will post the details of the install once it is complete.

What do you mean by needing to remove some of the meat? What area of the block are you referring to? My '58 has the patrick's ring & pinion kit installed as well. I also spoke with Mr. Langdon and was told the same thing. He suggested that I install a a 200r4 or a 700r in place of the TH350. Just as in your case, I have a turbo 350 accessible but not a 200 nor 700. I'm anxious to see how things workout. Thanks for taking the time to inform us.

The flexplate needs to have .015 clearance to the block as per the instructions. so the area near the crank would need to be ground down to make this clearence available, howeve I have been talking to Hotrod Lincoln and we now believe a shim between the flexplate and the crank may be the better option to grinding the area around the crank. I was going to contact the vender and see what he thought of the option before going further. I have had several different opinions here as to wether or not to use the th350 and right now it is about 50/50 wether it will work or not and since i have it available i am going to put it in and see for myself if it will work or not. I will update after I speak with the vendor and determine if i will use the shim or not.

I hope that everyone's had a blessed thanksgiving. Most people seemed to have had a 4 day weekend so I figured that it might have given you the some time to figure out the shimming/grinding situation. I looked at the Stovebolt Engine Co. website and saw that their adapter is made of aluminum instead of the steel version that Buffalo uses. That sounds a like a good idea when luggin around a 35-40 lb plate under the truck at the time of the install. I'm reconsidering from whom to purchase the adapter as a result. Please keeps us posted , and thanks for the info.

I talked with Tom from Stovebolt Engine Co and though he couldnt say for sure what would happen he advised against the .015 shim. One of the reasons he stated was pushing the Torque Converter further on the pump shaft and he could not say for certain if there was enough play to allow the additional insertion., Therefore I will be grinding the engine block as instructed to allow for the clearance that is necessary for the flexplate and sometime down the road perhaps I or someone more knowledgeable can determine if a shim isnt another way to go.

Hy Village_Idiot and guys, there should be lots of room to move the flywheel .015" away from the crankshaft flange, when I install a torque converter, I put as many flat washers as I can between the flywheel and torque converter, as long as some clearance remains there is no problem, and you get maximum pump drive engagement. This trick was passed on to me by a transmission rebuilder, hope that helps.

Update. Due to the conflicting information I am getting regarding this installation I will be taking another members advice and I will test fit the adapter torque converter and trans and i will see how much clearance there is If there is sufficient clearance I will be installing the .015 shim And NOT grinding on the block. I want to take this opportunity to thank everyone involved in this matter either on this thread or via PM who have helped me with this matter.

I got a 6"x6" piece of .015 Shim stock and made a spacer for the flexplate on monday. I should be installing the shim and flexplate tonight to see if it all fits and then to see if I have the necessary clearance between the flywheel to the block. I will post the results as soon as I get time. Pictures and a full description can be found on the link provided to facebook where I am bloging the build.I will also try to post here as well.

I have the shim plate made and I have done some dry fitting. Everything seems to be going together well. As I do the final assembly I will document it with photo's on the Facebook link in my signature. I hope to take some of the guesswork out of this installation as there have been alot of questions that needed to be asked to move this forward and I am sure there are alot more to come. All in all it has not been a difficult installation and as my million questions get answered by the knowledgeable members of this site it is coming together. Again I would Like to thank all of those involved both in this thread and others who have helped via PM without you guys, progress would be zero.

Hy Village Idiot, thanks very much for the update, and the promise of photo documentation, continued good luck on the project.

Well it is finally together. The engine and transmission have finally been joined. This process was long , but had I known what I was doing it might have gone ALOT faster. Jessica Purchased a transmission adapter plate kit from Stovebolt Engine Company. It came with a modified flex-plate, a bushing, An adapter plate, bolts for the flex-plate and the adapter plate and a starter for a 1970 Chevy Nova. The instructions supplied with the kit lacked in their descriptive powers, but all my questions were answered with a few phone calls back to Stovebolt. I would also like to mention the gracious members of the Stovebolt.com discussion forums who helped me sort all of this out.

So mounting a TH-350 automatic transmission to a 1959 Chevrolet 235 inline 6 isn't so hard with the right support. I began this project with some research trying to determine what my options were with adapter plates and there were about 3 or 4 different companies that make them. Buffalo Enterprises, Stovebolt Engine Company and Bendtsens. StoveBolt was the cheapest with the fastest delivery so I went with them. Some of the major differences were materials the plates were made of, StoveBolt uses Aluminum and the other 2 I believe were Steel.Another difference was what was included with the kit and how the flex-plate was made. In the long run cost was our determining factor.

I followed most of the instructions with some exceptions. The kit supplier suggested grinding material from the back of the block to achieve a desired clearance between the flex-plate and the engine block of .015 minimum. I was uncomfortable with this process, and after a week of discussion with members of the Stovebolt forum, I chose to make a shim instead to give me the recommended clearance.

The process to do the installation are pretty simple. There are 3 dowels on the crankshaft that need to be ground off so the new flex-plate will go on. The must be ground off and not pulled out since there is the potential for an oil leak. Then fitting the flex-plate to the crank to determine if there is sufficient clearance between the block and flex-plate. If there isn't at least .015 between them you will need to either grind the block or make a shim plate as I did. After that the Adapter plate is installed on the rear of the block and the flex-plate can be re-installed along with a bushing supplied with the kit to fill the space between the center hole of the modified flex-plate and the flange on the crank shaft. It is important to use Lock-Tite on all the bolts associated with the flex-plate and torque converter. With the adapter plate and the flex-plate installed it is a good time to install the starter and check the alignment and clearances. In my case I had to remove some material from the snout to keep it from rubbing the ring gear on the flex-plate and I was able to put power on the starter and turn over the engine to check my alignment on the bench instead of under the truck on my back. Once I was satisfied with the alignment I slipped the Torque converter on transmission making sure to fully engage the pump gear on the spline (side note I did test fit the torque converter nose in the crankshaft flange to be sure it fit all the way to the flex-plate by hand with little to no force) and I bolted the transmission to the adapter plate. I put 2- 3/8 washers between the flex-plate and the torque converter on all three torque converter bolts. I had been told that this ensures maximum insertion to the pump and this is beneficial to the transmission.Then I torqued everything down.

I have posted pictures and comments as well as tagged the pictures to help understand the installation. These pictures can be found at the Facebook Page link in my signature. Thanks to everyone involved in helping me and answering my questions. Your time and expertise is GREATLY appreciated

Hy Village_Idiot, Happy New Year, congradulations, and thank you very much for the very well written update. I would not be suprised to see this post and accompanying photos turned into a Tech Tip, continued good luck on your project, and please keep us informed. If we can be of any further assistance, please don't hesitate to ask!

Hello Village Idiot,
Wow, I'm pleased that you've made all of this progress. You must feel really good about it. I've been following the buildup and particularly the TH350 adapter install on your Facebook page. I recently recieved my adapter kit from Buffalo Enterprises. His kit seems to be pretty complete and certainly looks well built, but I continue to look over the install instructions to make sure that I have the best understanding of the process. His kit discusses a grinding of the rear of the block around the crankshaft, just as your kit from stovebolt engine co. He included a .080 piece of aluminum stock to make sure that flexplate has that much clearance from the block. I'm concerned with taking that much material off of the block itself. I'd like to get your or anyone's take on that, I'm unsure if that much needs to be ground off (hopefully some clearance will be present before any grinding), but I do understand that his kit requires that much clearance. I see that you used a spacer in place of grinding the block. Do you perhaps have a diagram of the spacer that you fabricated. Thank you for providing all of the information and photos regarding your installation, I look forward to see any updates.
Frank

Chava's '58

The process that I used to make the plate was simply placing the .080 stock on the bench and tracing the bolt pattern and center hole directly from the flexplate supplied with the kit. Making the shim plate was costly. I paid $45 for the 6"x6"x.080" piece of material I used. And after I wrecked that one I purchased a second one The material is thin, kinda like trying to drill a precision hole in a soda can.I was Against Grinding the block and the shim was the only way to go for me. Many others, however have done just as the directions stated with good sucuess. Dry fit the flexplate to the crank see how much is in the way and decide for yourself from there wether to grind or shim. Perhaps you may need a little of both.(on a side note....I dry fit everything several times to make sure I knew How the kit went together before i did a single thing with the block or the shim.)I have pictures from the kit I was supplied that show where the block needs to be ground if you need them for a visual reference. I am watching this thread and the facebook blog so ask as many questions as you need to and I will answer as many as I can. The Knowledgeable members of this site will pick up the slack.

Apparently, since the stovebolt crankshaft does not have a flange that protrudes much past the back of the block, clearance between the flex plate and the block becomes an issue. Rather than grinding the block, which is obviously an irreversible procedure, it makes a LOT more sense to simply install a shim to keep the flex plate from rubbing. Be sure to account for the thrust bearing clearance which allows a very slight fore-aft movement of the crankshaft, usually .005" or a bit more. There's enough wiggle room in the pump drive slot on the converter to handle some flex plate shimming without any concern. Just make sure there's room to bolt everything together without bottoming the converter hub in the inner pump gear. The closer the better, but don't take up ALL the fore-aft clearance.
Jerry