The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk 1954 hydromatic automatic 5 window

Can anybody tell me how rare a 1954 3100 5 window automatic really is. I bought one and I cannot find any facts on how rare the vehicle is. Thanks everyone any info will help!!!

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There is no GM data to answer your question.

Hydra-Matic is how GM spelled it.

A few people on this site own a 1954 1/2 ton Chevrolet truck with a Hydra-Matic transmission (and a 5-window cab).

Everyone keeps telling me it's rare, but it seems to me that it was just a more expensive options back then, therefore making it uncommon! Thoughts!

It is uncommon and you could call it "rare".
Dictionary definition: Rare: Infrequently occurring; uncommon

I have one and I got it because it is an oddity and it is the first automatic transmission used in a Chevrolet truck (non-military GMC trucks used it in 1952/53).

What does "rare" mean to you? Your truck as equipped is uncommon and thus it is rare. However, it is not quite as rare as hen's teeth.

Have you driven your truck? Does it shift nicely?

The Hydra-Matic dates back to 1938 or 39, depending on which historian is talking. The first models shifted automatically, but a manual clutch was used for starting and stopping. In 1940, a fluid coupling (not a torque converter) was used, which allowed the engine to idle in gear. Oldsmobiles and Cadillacs got most of the Hydramatics, with a very few installed in Buicks.

Along comes WW II, and a lot of the 2 1/2 ton trucks used the transmission, and at least one medium-sized tank was powered by a Cadillac flathead V-8 with a Hydramatic transmission. After the war, GM sold the Hydramatic to other manufacturers, such as Nash and Lincoln. By the mid-1950's Chevy and GMC trucks got a beefed-up version of the trans, with slightly higher hydraulic line pressures for more positive shifts. The bigger GMC's used Pontiac V-8's with hydros, up to and including a few road tractors. I drove one of them in the mid-1960's.

The Dual Range Hydra-Matic is a 4-speed without a torque converter, that does not multiply torque for starting from a dead stop, so it needs a very low-ratio 1st. gear. It makes a 1-2 shift at 3 or 4 MPH in some cases, depending on throttle opening and driveshaft speed. Shifts were VERY positive when the throttle pressure was adjusted properly, causing some owners to refer to them as "Jerk-O-Matics". Lowering the throttle pressure resulted in soft, slippy shifts and rapid wear on the clutches and bands. The transmission was used in Chevy and GMC pickups and some larger trucks into the late 1950's or early 1960's, much longer than their use in cars. The upgraded Hydra-Matic that was introduced in cars in 1956, the Controlled Coupling model, was never used in trucks. It lasted into the mid-60's, 1964, I believe, and got replaced by the Turbo 400.

Your truck is not terribly scarce or valuable, but it is somewhat rare because of the relatively few, percentage-wise, that were sold with the automatic transmission option. It's worth keeping in original condition if possible, because there are several unique f-eatures of the automatic transmission trucks.
Jerry

Ok thanks everyone!

1shot54 I also have a 54 with a Hydra-Matic in 3 a window version... Any pics yet ?

Am I safe to assume that these are the Hydro-Matics that were beefed up and used in drag racing in the 60s?
B&M Hydro wore a deep trench between their shop and the bank selling beefed up Hydros back in the day.

Hydra-

Sorry... I got B&M Hydro stuck in my mind

B&M came up with a modification they called a "Hydro-Stick", which could be held in any gear instead of going into a safety override shift to prevent engine damage. The Dual Range version of the Hydra-Matic could be locked into 3rd. gear for better acceleration in traffic, but it would shift up to 4th. at approximately 65-70 MPH regardless of selector position to prevent valve float due to over-revving of the engine.

B&M figured out how to diasble the safety override, and also modified the vanes on the fluid coupling to allow for higher RPM at the starting line of the drag strip to accomodate radical cam profiles. It was a process similar to the high stall speed torque converters we have now, but Hydra-Matic fluid couplings don't multiply torque at stall speed. The main advantage to a fluid coupling is the fact that they achieve an almost-perfect RPM lockup, instead of the 10% slip that all torque converters have at speed. That's why "lockup" converters are popular now- - - - -they have a mechanical clutch built in to eliminate slippage at light-throttle cruise. (Nothing new about that- - - -Studebaker had a torque converter lockup clutch in 1949!)
Jerry

When GM started using auto trannies in the pickup trucks,most people were wary of them.It took quite a few years for the HydraMatic to prove itself,as a truck tranny.Now when you go to buy a new pickup,it is hard to find one with a manual tranny.

here are some pics that I snagged from a hydra-stick that crossed ebay awhile back. http://rides.webshots.com/album/577096339WZpUxq


It was my understanding that the hydra-stick actually put B&M on the map.

I used to drag race in the 60s and was a fan before that. Prior to the Hydro-Stick everything was manual shift which was fine but inconsistent starts and missed shifts cost races. Enter the Hyrdo-Stick and things changed very quickly. Consistent performance, no more missed shifts saw droves of teams switching. Since B&M was the only player in the field their name was as common in drag racing as Chevrolet.

Manual transmissions were still dominant but no longer the only choice.

The other winning automatic was the Chrysler Torqueflite but it only dominated the stock classes and never really found it's way into the modified classes.

Whatever happened after 1966 was after my involvement. Uncle Sam had other ideas about what I should be doing.

Remember the Clutch-Flite? It was a combination of the Torqueflite automatic with a manual clutch. Then somebody came out with the idea of a "slippy" clutch with 2 or 3 discs, steel separator plates, inertial wweights on the pressure plate arms, and a calibrated-leakdown hydraulic slave cylinder that released the throwout bearing gradually. A driver could rev the engine to whatever launch RPM he wanted, and hold it there while the clutch did all the work. Just another reason I preferred dirt roundtracks to drag racing- - - -lots more emphasis on driving ability than technology gimmicks!
Jerry

I agree that the use of automatic transmissions opened the door to technology and decreased demands on drivers to drive. We used to have a saying for the auto trans guys - "stab it and steer it".

Personally I wouldn't succumb to the auto trans switch, I stayed with the manual from my F/Stock Chevelle to our D/Gasser... and I never missed a shift, and had my launch down to a science. It was just a matter of knowing how to ring every last drop out of your car and staying cool in the heat of battle. Even in drag racing there are so many mistakes a driver can make, it just happens a lot quicker with no time to correct. Racing takes skill regardless of the shape or surface of the track. Each has its own demands.

This is interesting, Guys. But I do believe we are straying a bit off topic.

Thank you!!!!! cletis.....So my original question about the 5 window hydra-matic is answered i guess. The truck has no more value than a 3 window manual truck on paper, so to speak! I cannot find any info/hard evidence that it's worth anymore than the next '54. I understand the condition of the truck depends on the value, but i'm just wondering if the dealer options made it more valuable, on paper!

I somewhat disagree. As with any collectable vehicle, options make them more desireable. The hydra-matic was an option and numbers were more limited than say a 3 or 4 speed. I would NOT say that it is worth no more than any other 3 window cab truck.

I also have a 54 with hydra-matic trans. It was built in Canada at the Oshawa truck plant. At the few car shows and cruise nights we go to it is the first hydra-matic many have ever seen. I have yet to see another in Canada,that doesn't mean they are not out there , but it is rare here and I would have to say it does add a slight amount to its value.

Where did anyone say that your 5-window Hydra-Matic equipped truck has no more value than a 3-window manual truck in the same condition (whatever condition that is)?

A five-window truck is usually considered to have more value than a tree-window truck (both trucks being in the same condition). The 5-window trucks are relatively rarer (less common) and more desirable.

Nobody has "hard facts" about how common the Hydra-Matics were, but let's say that they were about 10% of the number for manual transmissions. What condition is your Hydra-Matic? As asked in the third reply, how does it drive? If your Hydra-Matic is good, I'd say it is more valuable than a manual; however, if your Hydra-Matic is not good, it's an expensive repair and an expensive swap to a manual (the transmission and torque-tube would have to be replaced together).

"I understand the condition of the truck depends on the value, " You've got it backwards: "The value of the truck depends very greatly upon the condition of the truck."

And, yes, as Greg posted, original dealer options and accessories in good condition increase the value of truck.

If you want an exact answer to your original question, that question has not been answered: "how rare is your vehicle". However, compared to a manual transmission 3-window 1954 1/2 ton truck, your truck is rarer.

Kinda funny, a guy told me last weekend at a car show ( his opinion ), "The only people that think a 5 window hydra-matic's are special are people who own them" I was offended at first, but then i laughed.

I'm an auto body and paint technician and i can restore this truck in 6 months, I'm just trying to figure out what path I want to take with it! Original, minor mods, or full custom.

I guess I'm testing the waters here on the stovebolt forum, because i don't have much knowledge of these trucks.....Thanks everyone, feel free to keep posting!

I have a 54 3800 5 window with the hydramatic. I have not got it running yet to determine if I will keep the hydramatic or hot rod the truck. It is pretty complete so has some value in that aspect.. It is not rusted or abused... in any case, it got put on the back burner for right now.

"Special is as special does"?
"Special is in the eyes of the beholder"?
"Who cares if it is special to someone else - it's special to me"?

Back in the 60s & 70s, when I first drove Advance-Design trucks, my only experience was in 3-window cabs (these cheaper models were common - I never saw a 5-window cab in the rural/farming areas of VA - I did not know they existed - my uncle sold Chevies to farmers).

Thirty years later, when I first rode in 5-window cabs, I immediately realized how superior there are in terms of safety and "driving pleasure". If someone has a choice of a 5-window cab vs a 3-window cab (let's say in the same condition, at the same price), I think they would choose the 5-window (perhaps because it is "special"; perhaps because it is more valuable).

Regarding the Hydra-Matic being "special", there is no question that it was (and is) a cast-iron, 4-speed, direct-drive (I think that is what it can be called called) automatic transmission :
- the first automatic transmission used in a domestic Chevrolet truck;
- it weighs about as much as the engine;
- it was/is surprisingly reliable;
- it was so reliable and efficient that it was (supposedly) used in race cars (in the day);
- it is/was relatively uncommon; and,
- it is a conversation piece of historical interest (look at some of the informative posts above)

Regardless of all the above BS about what is rare and what is special, what difference does it make in your "testing of the waters"? An "authentic" restoration vs a "modification" restoration is a personal choice which is usually based on personal factors.

If you are going to restore for your own long-term use and long-term ownership you might go in one direction - do what YOU like; if you want to restore it to turn a profit, good luck (no matter what you decide to do).

I think Tim said plenty there, but I would add this to the mix as well... Unless you have a truck that was customized in the 50s or 60s, and done really well, and is a good representation of that period, it is really tough to "hot rod" a truck or a car for that matter, and have it hold any value. A stock, or close to stock restoration, with some period correct non-stock upgrades, will always hold value, and stand a chance of appreciating with time better than a modernized version of a custom truck. 90% of the time, the truck is most appealing to the one that built it. If you want a wide market to be able to turn the truck with, go more stock. In the end it comes down to univeral appeal and having the largest audience that can appreciate the truck. GM sold a lot of those trucks, and so they must have done something right. First generation (1953 GMC, and 1954 Chevrolet) Hydra-Matics are very uncommon. Not only because of the relative newness of the option, but because the factory that produced those transmissions burned to the ground, and so the production was very limited. They became much more common to see in the 55-59 trucks. If you have a good functioning, relatively complete H-M, I think you'd be doing it a disservice to alter it much from stock. Just my opinion though.

http://www.autotran.us/TheGreatHydraMaticFire.html

Is this Hydra-matic in the 54 GMC an "open" driveshaft, or enclosed like the 53 std. transmissions and earlier?

Which Hydra-Matic?
One in a truck mentioned above?

A Hydra-Matic (and manual) transmission in a 54 1/2 ton GM truck would have had an enclosed drive-shaft.

A Hydra-Matic (and manual) transmission in any GM truck larger than 1/2 ton would have had an open drive-shaft.

A lot of truth. I have seen more cars, trucks, and motorcycles made worse looking by someone with no eye for proportion, balance, or symmetry.
Jeffrey

I grew up around the first shop in Nashville Tennessee to work on automatic transmissions, and attended a GM-sponsored seminar Dad was teaching for area mechanics on the Dual Range HydraMatic. At the ripe old age of 12, GM sent me a certificate proclaiming to the world that I was a "Certified Hydra-Matic Technician".

The Dual Range transmission used in the mid-1950's Chevy and GMC trucks was the second-generation transmission- - - -the first one that was produced from 1940 to around 1952 did not have the 3rd. gear hold position on the shift quadrant that locked the box out of 4th. gear until the engine was almost ready to float valves. The 1939 transmission had 4 forward speeds that shifted automatically, but it also had a manual clutch. Stopping and starting required the driver to disengage the clutch to prevent stalling the engine. By 1940 they had figured out how to include a fluid coupling (not a torque converter) that allowed the engine to idle in gear. Thousands of WW II military trucks ran Hydramatics, along with a light tank that ran two Cadillac flathead V8's with a H-M for each track. Dad's only competition in the automatic transmission business in the late 1940's and early 50's was a former tank mechanic.

Lots of history there- - - -I encourage you to keep the automatic unless it's trashed. FATSCO transmissions up in Noo Joisey still stocks a good supply of repair parts.
Jerry