The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop difficult starting

A while back I replaced my points with a Pertronixz HEI.

I am having trouble starting the truck. It used to crank over and start right up. Since I switched to the pertronix it cranks and only starts when I release the starter...like there is not enough juice to crank the starter and power the ignition at the same time.

I put the HEI in to try to solve my mis fire problem but it runs no better.

The other night I cranked it for several seconds, several times before it started. When I checked the battery terminal the prositive cable was pretty hot.

Is this normal? The battery checks out good the starter checks out good, the generator checks out good. The wring harness is new and for a 6 volt so is the battery cable.

Any advice is appreciated

Rich

Did you get a new coil with the petronics? If so is it a resister coil, if so you need to eliminate the old resistor on the firewall. Look over the instructions again.

What part number Pertronix Electronic Ignition are you using (technically, it is not an HEI )?

Do you have a foot-pedal actuated starter or key-switch/solenoid starter?

What gauge battery cables do you have?

Tommy,
I got the flamethrower coil with the pertronics ingnition. It is wired directly to the ignition switch. There was no reseitor on the firewall that I am aware of. Did I miss something?

Tclederman,
It is a foot pedal starter. I don't have the part number handy but it was the 6 volt model for this dizzy. I cross referenced the dizzy number with the Pertronox parts look up.

I bought the cable from either Chevy Duty of LMC for the 6 volt system. I don't know the gauge but it worked fine before the pertronix setup was installed.

Any thoughts
Rich

You say the positive cable is getting hot. Check both the neg and pos battery terminal connections. They shouldn't get hot unless you have been cranking a long time.

Clutching at straws: what do you have connected to the + and - terminals of the coil.

I have used the Pertronix Flamethrower coil on a 6v system with no problems (Pertronix said it would work fine).

5 window

I did crank the starter for about a minute (6 or 7 attempts for 5 to 8 second each) before it started. That's when the cable was hot. I don't know if that that is long enough to expect the hot cable. I have also checked all my grounds recently. I suppose a crappy ground could cause this issue as well


Tim,

The pertronix unit in the dizzy has 2 wires, red and black.

The red one goes to the positive terminal on the coil.
The black one goes to the negative terminal on the coil.

The only other wire comes from the ignition switch and goes to the positive coil terminal.

This is the way the pertronix directions said to connect it. I did have trouble when I first installed it and I had to run a wire from the battery directly to the coil to test it. That was in the pertronix directions as well and it worked so I rechecked all my connections and got it to work without the direct jumper but it always starts when I let go of the starter pedal never if I am pressing the starter. (again...like there is not enough juice to crank the starter and power the ignition.


The wiring harness is new and was recommended for a 6 volt system. I had no starting problems until I put the pertronix in.

There are a few other things:
1. I have increased the spark plug gap to .035 from .035 which was recommended here on this site. It did not make a difference. I was told that you could go even larger with this ignition.

2. I did have the starter tested but not under a load. I wil need to bring the truck in to have the started tested under a load.

Would a larger gauge wire to the coil from the ignition help?

Rich

Rich, I think the larger guage wire to the coil you mentioned might help - do you know what guage the wire is? If I read all your posts right, if you connect a jumper from the battery direct to the coil, it will start but with the jumper removed it only starts when you take your foot off the stomp starter. Sounds like you've got a voltage drop between the ignition switch and the dizzy, or possibly between the battery and the ignition switch, or both. The Pertronics probably wants to see a full 6 volts and isn't happy with whatever is left over after the detour through the ignition switch and then to the coil.

As a last resort, you could run a jumper from the battery post on the starter, through a toggle switch, and then directly to the + side of the coil. If you hide the switch under the dash, you've got a nice theft deterrent.

I think I will try a larger gauge wire to the coil and try to shorten the route to see if that helps. If not I will try to increase the gauge from the battery to the ignition which if memory serves comes from the ampmeter. If that proves difficult given the gauge position I will try your suggestion.

Thanks for the help
Rich

Something you might try, put the original coil back on. if it fires, you may have a faulty or incorrect (12 volt instead of 6) coil. If it makes no difference, there may be a wiring/ground issue.

some of the stomp switches on top of the starter have a small post sticking out of them on the side I believe this is for a jump wire to go to the coil to get full voltage of 6 volts to the coil for starting purpose

Check the voltage applied to the coil + terminal during cranking. I'm going to guess it's too low to trigger the Pertronix module while the starter load is on the electrical system. A 55 International pickup I worked on had a similar problem, and the culprit was a loose, dirty connection at the back of the ignition switch that was dropping the voltage applied to the coil. It had a regular point-type ignition system, though. What happens when you try a 12V boost start, or crank it with a battery charger attached? Does it fire up normally then?
Jerry

ABento,
I do have a post on the side of the starter switch. I will look into a jumper from that post.

Jerry,
My harness is new but I will check the connections between the ignition and the coil. I will also check the voltage during cranking. That is a good idea.

I will let you guys know what I find later this week when I have a chance to test this out.

Thanks
Rich

Hey guys,
I ran a jumper from the side post on the starter switch to the coil. It does seem to solve the problem.
Starts much easier and faster. I don't have to time my release on the starter pedal to hope I catch it just right to start.

Now my question is...Is this a long term solution? Should I run a heavier wire from the ingnition switch to the coil? I hate to get under the dash...being a big guy and all.

The other isssu is that I don't know if that will even work. There is a big wire to the amp meter and a big wire from there to the ignition switch. Then a smaller wire to the coil.
It could be the small wire...it could be the switch.

I don't see my current jumper solution as a problem as the side post on the starter only has power to it when the pedal is stomped. It still wont start unless the key is turned as the power to this jumper shuts off when you relsease the starter

Thoughts?

Rich

disconnect the ignition wire at the coil.Connect it to a test light that you can see from the drivers seat.Turn on the switch,the light should go on.Now step on the starter.Does the light go out?when you release the start pedal does the light come back on?If so,you have a wiring issue,and will need the connect to a 6v supply that is constant when the switch is on.
Boyd

Does the engine continue to run after you release the starter pedal? If so, leaving the jumper in place will be at least a temporary fix. That fact reinforces the idea that you're losing at least some of the voltage between the ignition switch and the coil when the jumper is not in place. 6 volt systems really don't like even slight voltage drops! Just one loose or dirty connection, probably at the back of the ignition switch, can cause the exact starting problem you're describing.
Jerry

No dirty connections on this truck all the wiring is new. I could take another foot out of tne ignition wire from the switch to the coil.

I checked the connections on the switch... I could turn the screw on the hot lead about a half turn. I don't know if that is enough to cause this issue.

I don't see any reason why the jumper cannot be a permanent solution. It seems to work ok.

Rich

What is the health of your starter? Sometime they will draw so much current their isnt enough left for the ign.

I have had the starter tested (it was fine) but not under a load. I was planning to do that when I get the truck back together. (I am in paint hell right now...different post)

Thing is there was no problem before the pretronics. So it is possible that the starter draws too much under a load and the points ingition just might have been more forgiving on the power drop than the pretronics.

It is working fine now with the jumper. I am just curious if there could be any long term problems with this solution?

Rich