The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Having problems with my 216... need tuning advice

Hello everyone,

I am new to the forum and am hoping someone can help me out. I am having a really hard time getting the information I am looking for. I have a 1946 Chevy Stylemaster Sedan with the 216 motor and 3 on the tree. I am new to these vehicles. Sadly, I am a Tech by trade but seeing as how my schooling has failed me, I need some help. (I can't figure out where to plug the scan tool in - just kidding).

I am having drivability issues. Here is the deal. The car starts and idles effortlessly, and sounds really smooth; however if I jump on the gas pedal to quickly it pops and spudders, sometimes stalling. If I lay into the pedal slowly it revs up nice and smoothly, and sounds healthy. The major problem is the absolute lack of power. I can hardly get the car going. If I put it into first and let off it will buck, pop and stall. I have to revv it up really high and let the clutch out slowly to get it moving. Once its moving, with the pedal floored, it struggles to get moving, still popping and spuddering, and knocking and so on. After a certain RPM, although still lacking any power what-so-ever, it will smooth out and run down the road smoothly. But still top speed for me right now seems to be about 35 in second gear. By the time I hit third it just doesn't have enough power to go any faster and I usually have to downshift to second.

The points, cap, wires, and plugs are all new (installed by previous owner). I do not know the condition of the carb, have not checked the timing, and have not done a compression test yet. I will check timing and compression tomorrow. I was hoping someone could give me an indication of the direction I should be looking in.

I am used to working on Chevy's and do so daily... I can't understand why this car seems so simple yet so foreign, but its giving me a real hard time in any event.

Thanks in advance,

Dan

Could be a carb problem but I'd start right where you said - timing. Check the points first, should be set at .016", sometimes new points will rapidly wear in and go way out of spec in a hurry, always a good idea to check them. Then put the old timing light on it, remember to disconnect the vacuum line going from the distributor to the carb, and plug it. With todays fuels you can run more advance than the book calls for. As long as the engine doesn't ping under load in high gear, you're o.k. to advance as far as it will take. They seem to run stronger and get better mileage this way.

After you've done that, let us know how she runs and we'll go from there.

sounds like bad points or a bad condensor.dont rule something out cause someone else said its ok.check the simple stuff first so you dont chase your tail. i have seen a lot of people change point but not condensor. they do go bad and cause week spark.they are cheep and easy.

In my experience, if it accepts full throttle without misfiring it's not the condenser.
My guess: not enough timing, or the advance mechanism is stuck, or both.

Update:

So I got outside this morning and took a closer look. The first thing I decided I was going to check was the points; and I am glad I did. They were completely closed, I am surprised the car even ran. So I scratched around with a little 400 grit paper to get them cleaned up and set them to .018 as the service manual recommends. The condenser is brand new and the internals of the distributor are clean. I took it out for a ride and it was much much better (as in I was able to get it rolling and finally into third gear, but the car is still lack power so I decided to tackle the timing.

Here's where my issues stated. First off, I accidentally touched the little white knob on the end of the distributor. I tried to turn it back until i realized it just freewheels in either direction. Could someone please tell me what this does?

Secondly I could not get the timing right nor could I find the circle on the flywheel. I tried first with a timing light and then after reading the manual I tried just checking for it with a shop light (neon light as the book recommends). Either way I found nothing. So I set it to 0, and took it out. It ran horrible again. I finally advanced the timing about 4 notches on the indicator which is like 2-3 notches short of all the way advanced. The car actually takes off smoothly from a dead stop, but half way through first second and third gear the engine starts to break up really bad, backfire, pop and there is NO power. So I shift to second, it pulls hard again and then just falls off, pops and backfires.

P.S. plugs are clean and gaped properly. They look new, the tips are slightly white. There is currently 87 in the tank, in the future there will be 93.

Thanks,

Dan

Ok I managed to find the little steel ball with my timing light, and I timed it to the pointer and then every so slightly advanced it. Unfortunately I am still having this new problem. Car takes off perfectly and just as you begin to make some progress accelerating it begins to flat line, pop, backfire, and is powerless until you shift into the next gear. Then it gets some of its power back, feels like it wants to go, and the begins falling on its face all over again.

DG

Check the fuel dilivery system. Some times people put a filter in line between the pump & carb. Check that & any filters in the pump or in front of the carb. Check the pump pressure & blow out all the lines. If all that is good you need to put a kit in the carb. What carb do you have? It is probably a Carter W-1. The regular parts suppliers don't have kits for that one any more. It has to come from a specialty supplier.

Yes it could be a fuel delivery problem but I think I'd make sure the ignition system was o.k. before I started in on the fuel system. You can check the mechanical advance by again plugging the vacuum line, look at the ball with the timing light, and slowly increase the RPM, you should see the timing advance as RPM goes up. If this is working o.k., I'd dial in more initial advance and try it again. If the mech advance is not working, take the points plate out to gain access to the advance weights and springs, and make sure the springs are still intact, the weights are free to move on the plate and it's not rusted or cruded up somehow.

That knob you mentioned sounds like the grease cup. Just give it a turn every 1000 miles or so to keep lube on the shaft bearing.

My friends truck sounded like this and it was a defective coil.

First rule of troubleshooting is... Do not assume anything. The condenser may be new but also may be bad. My bet is on the condenser.

I am going to give the coil a try first because I was reading up and it sounds like the coil, however where can I get a new condenser. Is this something I can get over the counter or do I have to special order it?

Dan

I'm not sure when the electrolock went away. An electrolock is the armored cable that runs from the ignition switch to the top of the coil, an effort to prevent jumping the ignition to steal the car. If you have an electrolock and want to keep the original appearance take an anti O SH*T pill now because they are expensive when you can find them. If it doesn't have an electrolock, six volt coils are cheap and can be bought about anywhere although you'll probably have to order one.

It does have the electrolock and I would like to keep the appearance original. However I was able to get a very similar coil from tractor supply company this morning. I installed it, and it ran the same. So its safe to rule out the coil. Now the condenser...... I guess I have to call around and see where I can get one. Its a darn shame, the one in there is brand new.

Symptoms for today. Checked the plugs again after pounding on it and popping it all the way up my hill, the plugs still have a white tint on the tip however they are very clean. This is unusual because I would figure if it was misfiring the plugs would be black. They look the way they should.

I noticed today, when I gave the motor a good revv in the driveway that it does begin to break up in the higher rpm range even when it is not under a load. But it breaks up much lower if you put a load on it. I still don't believe its a fuel delivery issue but I am running out of electrical components to check. I think this is going to have to be the next thing I look at.

P.S. What is the top rpm range I want to revv this thing to. I am not standing on it and unfortunately I do not have an rpm gauge. Just want to make sure its not like 3000 or something.

DG

TO THE GUY WHO SAID IT WAS THE BRAND NEW CONDENSER THAT WAS BAD... thank you! The brand new condenser............. was bad! SO I replaced it ($7.50 from NAPA) and the car runs like a top!!!

Thanks again for all the support you guys have given me. I have been a member of a few other sites relating to this vehicle and nobody has gone out of their way as much as the people on here to give me GOOD sound advice! Thanks again to all!

P.S. car is actually pretty quick for a 216 6 cylinder!

DAN

First, get a shop manual (should be linked to this site) and go completely through the 'tune up' proceedures. From compression test, valve adjust, timing, carb etc etc vs. just what we would call "Easter Egging" in the Navy.
Also a vacuum gauge is an inexpensive little tool that's great for so many tune up items.

I have to go through it. I can see there is still some more power there, but I have other things I really need to focus on too. I am just glad to have it running.

The brakes are horrible. I just finished converting to a dual master cylinder (from a 6 cylinder 69 mustang) and added some willwood residual valves to the system. I think my wheel cylinders all need to be replaced. From 40MPH it takes a half a city block to stop with my foot hard pressed on the floor. Got to love drums!

DG

You are welcome Danspeed. I have had many situations like yours when the condenser was the problem. I am also seeing a disturbing trend on replacement ignition components. Most are made in the Land of Almost Right and seem to have a high failure rate, even on the supposedly good stuff. I have been buying old N.O.S. Delco parts off Ebay whenever possible.

If you test the coil in a static manner with the condenser connected, it should give a spark that jumps between 1/4 and 1/2". Also, I am wondering if you have a power valve problem. Do you have a Rochester carburetor or is it different make?