The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot '60-'66 Trucks Suggestions please!

Hey guys,

So I'm at the point now that I'm either gonna start making plans to rip my truck apart, or sell it. (Gasp!!) Yeah I know, sometimes i think its a bit more than I can chew. Anyways, if I do keep it, which I hope to, I'm curious to know what you guys recommend I deal with first, and what order everything should be done. I was thinking of doing all the mechanical stuff first, and then dealing with the bodywork.
I know I`ve asked this before on here, but what powertrain do you guys recommend? I will be doing some highway driving, so I have to change something up. Right now I have the 283 (which I'm keeping) a 4 speed with granny low, and 3:90 rear end. What powertrain combo works best for those of you who do some highway driving in your trucks? I have to start looking for whatever I need, thats why I'm asking.
The bodywork I'm unsure of now, I don't think I will be doing it, might hire it out. The cab needs to be taken off to be fixed properly, and the box will need a patch or two of new metal welded in. Doors don't seem rotted, but don't fit into the cab properly. The hood has quite a few dents but is relatively solid (I think...) The front inner and outer fenders, rear wheel tubs and the tailgate will be replaced with new or really good used parts (anyone got those out there???) Seeing how I've never really done any proper bodywork, I'm starting to wonder if this project is a bit much, maybe I should find something that's in better shape.
Thanks for the input guys, look forward to hearing your responses.

Adam

If you want to keep a manual transmission, which I would, a T-5 swap is a good choice. The SM420 4-speed (I have one) in my truck with a 250 6 cylinder and 3:73 rear means my truck maxes out at 60 mph on the highway. The T-5 (which is what I plan to do, although a T-56 6-speed is also appealing) is in my plans.

As for body work, I'm in a similar situation, although probably worse since I have to replace every body panel in my truck except for the front bumper, grille, cowl & side cowl panels and bed sides. Everything else needs to be replaced. If the truck hadn't of been in our family for 30+ years I wouldn't be restoring this truck. However the nice thing about these trucks is that they are relatively simple and easy to take apart.

What are you final plans for the truck? Nice driver? Frame-off project? Budget also has a lot to do with it, body work is expensive. Although I'd rather do mechanical work than body work any day of the week.

Adam, I know so little about these trucks. I can't help you one lick with transmissions or gear ratios.

I can say that I'm very interested to see what you decide, and I'm a little scared for myself, too! After I've read so man people say "These trucks are so simple. Anyone can do it!", you're the first person to really make me think "Maybe I can't...". Maybe I'll be in over my head as well on this very expensive hobby.

Like you, I've never owned a project vehicle, although I have owned a truck in my past. It was a 2001 Nissan. Totally different animal, but I loved driving it. Something about a pickup makes me feel like a man. Raaaa!

I'm on the lookout for an old Chevy now, but I won't buy one until it's the right truck, the right time, and right for our budget. That gives me time to research, talk to people, and do the occasional gut check to make sure I'm not jumping into something I'll never finish.

So I love your truck, but don't try to sell it to me :-), and I hope you find a way to keep it and enjoy it and find pleasure in the labor, even the body work. Or, if it's not right for you, cut your losses before you get in too deep. As somebody else advised me, it is still just a project. No more, no less.

Please keep us updated on your decisions and your progress! Good luck! I think you're asking all the right questions.

Steve.

Adam, have you driven your truck as it is? Your drivetrain might be adequate...those little V-8's can run easily at higher rpms. If your highway driving is going to be limited anyway, well, it might be good with a little freshening-up.
Lots of new body panels are available, and only require a little "fitting". You can spend many thousands $$ and have a "show truck". Or spend a few (and many hours) and have a cool, dependable driver. I wouldn't want a show truck, because I like driving mine.
Having said that, I just ordered a bunch of parts and will be taking my '65 off the road until I get the cab & fenders patched up. If it lasts another 40 years, great. I've been driving it for 20, it doesn't owe me a thing.
Best luck,

cm

http://www.high-impact.net/transmission_and_gear/rangeroverdrive.htm
Here's a link to a Ranger overdrive transmission. It bolts between your transmission and engine. IIRC you need to move the trans (and shifter ) back about 7 inches. Driveshaft needs to be shortened as well. The unit is about 15-1600 bucks. No re-engineering of the entire truck is necessary. Your 283 is a good engine and ----you already own it! T-5 is a good option , but you also need to move the shifter and you need the correct trans from an S-10.
You are on the right track, Do the mechanicals first. Brakes are A-1 number 1. Then you can tune up the engine and add the overdrive. But you really ought to get the truck up and running before you change it all. You haven't even driven it yet( from what we can gather) and yet you are dissatisfied with it already. Why is this? Too many magazines and "well-intentioned" buddies is my theory. I suggest getting the truck safe and drivable and go from there. You can buy new front fenders from LMC for a couple hundred apiece. New rockers as well.
A rolling restoration is preferable to a bunch of pieces (crap to your wife) hanging around waiting for your budget to fix. I've been there and bought the T-shirt. If I had it to do all over again, I'd do it very differently on the first truck.

Ok guys, first off, thanks so much for the support and advice. But I think I need to clarify a few things. I've owned the truck for about a year, and yes, I do drive it, mostly on weekends, occasionally to work. It runs and drives as it is. This is how I know I need to do something about the transmission setup. It will do 120 kilometers an hour (not sure what that is in miles...70?) but the engine screams bloody murder. Just want to kick the revs down a bit...feels like it needs one more gear. I've heard about the T5 swap...I thought the splines dont line up? Who's done this? Like to hear how you folks made out with it. And isnt there a 4 speed that doesn't have the granny gear? You know, maybe one with the 4th speed being overdrive? Maybe that's just wishful thinking. I do want to keep it manual though, it's just too fun:)
It will not me a show truck. I want it to be nice enough to take to a cruise in or something, but I'm not looking to win any awards. It'll be a driver. Pretty much what it is now, a weekend driver, and occasionally hauling stuff...still intend to use it for what it is, a truck.
I don't really see a way around having it end up a pile of parts in the garage. I had a guy look under the cab, and he said that the only way to fix it properly is to take it off the chassis, flip it over, and cut out all the old, weld in the new. seeing how the front end is attached to the cab, this pretty much means I have no choice but to do a frame off restoration on it, which wasn't what I wanted. But I do want it fixed up properly, not some hack job. So I'm learning to accept this....I'm thinking maybe doing the box myself, and having someone else do the cab, doors, and hood. Then I will reassemble the front myself (it'll be mostly new parts anyway).

NewAtThis, don't let me discourage you. I don't want to be the negative one in the bunch...anything's possible, just depends on how much one wants to learn, spend, and do themself.

For the drivetrain, the first thing I would do is ditch those 3:90 gears for something taller. I'm not sure what all you can go with for your housing, but look for a ring and pinion in the upper 3:00 range. It will make a difference. Start with the simplest item first, I say. Not to say slapping in a ring and pinion is super simple, it's just easier than doing a T5 tranny swap.

Now, as to the body, I do have a recommendation and this is coming from experience. My '71 is my daily driver, I can't have it down for long periods of time, it's the only running vehicle I have right now but it does still need a ton of body work, much like your truck. I am starting on the back. These last few months I have lined up lots of parts. I have nice bedsides to replace my beat to pieces ones, I have a nice tailgate in storage, trailing arms on the way and am buying all the small parts. I will take a week of vacation this summer and strip off the bed and do the whole butt end in that time. This project has been months in planning.

Next up will be the front. I am in the process of getting some quarter panels and inner panels worked on and have a nice hood in storage. Then comes the question of the cab. I have the same dilemma as you. In my case I have gotten another cab. I am going to have that one worked on and fixed up, then next year (hopefully) I will take a couple weeks of vacation to strip off the cab and front end and put the fresh parts on. It will be a bit of a pain with registration since the VIN will change, but it will be fixed up. It may be something for you to consider as well.

I know it's a long rambling post, but I hope you have gotten some ideas anyway. Good luck on your truck!

You might want to read the following thread just to get a perspective on things, and realize you’re not alone in dealing with similar problems.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=397541

I would suggest you address the “project viability” issue first, before deciding where to start or in what order to begin repairs. The bodywork doesn’t need to be completed first, but a truly honest evaluation of the amount of money and work needed to bring it to a level you’ll be satisfied with in the end, should decide alone whether the truck you have is worth keeping.

I’ve built all my own cars/trucks over the years so I’m a champion of doing it yourself, but I’ve also seen many enthusiastic owners have their projects go down the road as a pile of parts, when the never ending flow of money and work ultimately interfered with family life, and failed to produce a completed vehicle.

Many owners are happy with “patina” rods now. If you can live with the level of defects in your truck as it is (or a little better if you can do some of the repairs yourself), fixing up the chassis and driving it for fun might be the answer. But if you really want it to be “nice” someday, now is the best time to analyze things realistically. Rust repair is expensive, and so is replacing body panels. By the time all the replaceable panels are purchased, more money may have been spent than what it would have cost to buy a better truck. And that doesn’t include things than cannot be replaced by bolting on new parts. Having a body shop replace things like rusty windshield headers, rocker panels, cab corners, floors, etc can cost a fortune, and for good reason. It takes many hours of effort at the going shop labor rate, and this is assuming you can find a reliable body man that will commit to timely repairs. And once all the parts are purchased and repaired, the owner still must have the talent, experience and enthusiasm to get it all back together successfully.

The best method I’ve found for estimated project expense is to write up a list of all the work, repairs, and parts, then put a price to each entry. Try to include both the things it needs, along with the things you want. Add it all up, then double that figure, and that will be pretty close to the actual cost. It just turns out that way, there being so many small trinkets that up to as much money as the big ticket items.

This isn’t meant to be discouraging. I just have a lifetime of experience building cars, and in my youth I didn’t start this way. I found something I liked, bought it, tore it all apart and started spending money. Many times I was greatly disappointed half way through a project I realized I could have bought something I wanted even more for less money than what I already had invested, and I could have avoided many months of hard work. By making an informed decision now you’ll be happier in the end, and will feel you are in charge of the project instead of at its mercy.

If you decide this is the truck you want to keep, it’s better to do small projects than the whole vehicle at once. A running vehicle is always more likely to survive the restoration process that a pile of clutter clogging up the garage, especially if it is your first. If at all possible, break down upgrades or projects into increments that can be accomplished in a weekend. This way the truck gets back together by Monday (or perhaps the following weekend). You have instant gratification you’ve accomplished something, and the vehicle remains self propelled.

If you do decide to do a frame off, buy a digital camera and takes more pictures than you think you’ll ever need. They will come in handy when you can’t remember how to put something back together, and are a sense of pride when you go to brag about the before and after comparisons. Buy the large economy boxes of different size Ziplock bags and bag everything. Use a felt marker on each bag identifying the contents, and try to store them in some arrangement that mimics where they go on the truck. Keep the bolts and fasteners with the parts they go on if possible, even if you have to tie wrap the bag to the part. Anything too big to put in a bag, write directly on the part with a felt market what it is and where it goes. This includes things like wiper linkage, door latch mechanisms, window winders, etc. And take more pictures!

As for the drivetrain, a 283 is a fantastic engine. I’d never get rid of one if it’s worth keeping. If you want reasonable engine speed on the freeway, either the rear end gears or the transmission needs to go. If you put an overdrive 5 speed like the T5 in, you won’t need to change the rear end, since a .70 overdrive will improve the final drive from 3:90 to around 2.73. The T5 is no where near as strong as a granny low 4 speed, but a T5 can live for a long time behind a 283 if it isn’t beaten. Decades ago I put a 283 in a 54 Chevy 2 door sedan, against the original 3 speed torque tube transmission and rear end. It lasted for several years until the spider gears in the rear end broke. I just knew it was a weak link and treated it accordingly. If you want to haul excessively heavy loads, you’re probably better off keeping the transmission you have and going to a higher (lower numerically) rear end ratio.

Passenger car 4 speeds will also bolt in and provide flexibility and can be a blast to drive. The Saginaw is probably the cheapest. Any Borg Warner/Richmond T10 or Super T10 will fit, as will early or late Muncies. The early versions share the same output yoke with the 3 speed manual, Powerglide and Turbo 350. The late versions use the larger Turbo 400 yoke.

Good luck on whatever direction you decide to take.

I've got a '62 Suburban that's my daily driver. i've also written for car magazines for 13 years, so I kinda know what works and what doesn't from an entry-level perspective.

You want to enjoy your truck. Mine still LOOKS like a basket case, but I'm based out of the Atlanta area and I've driven it to Joplin, MO, West Palm Beach FLA and Virginia, plus all points in between.

Absolute first thing you should do is replace the wiring harness. I speak from experience. A wiring harness will kill you. American Auto Wire has an EXCELLENT harness that is very, very easy to install. Anyone can do it, and it gives you GREAT peace of mine. ("I smell something burning?! Is that me?!!!")

Next, replace the rear gears. It'll help with that granny 4 speed. My '62 Suburban is my daily driver, so I went through all this. I have a later '81-87 4spd OD manual trans. It feeds a 3.42 Dana 44 rear end. The GMC Dana rears are bolt-ins for '60-'62 , and worth the hassle of finding one (if you own a Chevy). Dana 44 rear ends are still used in Jeeps, Explorers, etc. and you can find a 30-spline rear differential chunk just like I did on EBAY for pretty cheap. New ring and pinion gear, rebuild kit and someone to set it up, and you're on your way.

Next, I would do a power brake/dual reservoir master cylinder kit. Not glorious, but VERY worth the money and the effort. Dual reservoir master cylinders are well worth the cost.

after that, I would recommend a 3 row radiator, because over-heating while sitting in traffic sucks. follow it up with a 7-blade fan and a mechanical fan clutch, and hunt for a fan shroud.
That's the combo I have, and it does very well in heavy traffic.

After that, turn your attention to the engine (I have a 290hp crate engine), and then bodywork.

I drive my Sub every day, and absolutely LOVE it, even though it's a work in progress.

-Brad

Thanks guys for all the suggestions. I came across another truck online and almost called about it, it's a 66, with rebuilt 305 and 350 trans. And its in better shape than my 61. But I've decided that I will keep the 61, somehow I just like it more. And it's still mostly original. I don't really want to have to figure out what someone else did, I'd rather learn it myself, and make this truck totally mine, rather than something that somebody else restored but I drive. Keep the suggestions coming, I'm finally starting to get a game plan in my head for this project.

Figuring out a plan is the hardest part, I think. There is just so much to work on that it can be daunting. Once you do get a gameplan, stick with it. I mean really stick with it. Otherwise you may get overwhelmed. Just tackle one thing at a time and you will get there with it.

Good for you!
I just spent a bunch of money with LMC for new fenders, radiator, seals, etc., and I can't wait 'til I can take the old girl off the road and get started. I've looked at other trucks, too...but I also want to do it myself. I just need it for another week or two...
Best luck.

cm

Adam, old cars and trucks can be a lot like girlfriends or wives, and it sounds to me like you are seriously thinking about getting married. Please let me give you some fatherly advice.
You are going to spend your life with her, so make your choice a good one! Son, I suggest you back off the tatted-out, toothless, STD laden crack addict that you have fallen for, and pursue the angel-faced honor student that teaches Sunday school at the church down the lane. She will be harder to win, but you will be a happier man. I promise.

oem4me...wow, was that a suggestion to get rid of my truck? I do realise that it is alot like a woman, it's a labor of love. I do want to get married, but I'm being very careful about it...maybe too careful.
As for the truck, I realize it's alot of work, but most 50 year old trucks are, except yours of course...yours seems to be an extremely rare case.
Like i mentioned, I did happen to come across a 66 that looked to be in half decent shape, looked like an amateur resto, but had a rebuilt 305 and 350 auto trans. It looked more like "the girl who teaches sunday school" but it wouldn't really be restoring a truck...it's kinda already done. Not really what I was looking for, but maybe it should be, I don't know. I see trucks and women the same on some levels, but different on others. I do want to attempt to restore a truck, but not a woman, if that makes sense. But seriously, the advice is very appreciated, and hearing it from someone who has more experience than me is great...sometimes I really think I should look for one in nicer shape, but then I won't really be restoring it.

I have a 61 c20 and had most of the same concerns that you have. But, I hunted for this particular truck and overpaid for it because its what I wanted. Now, I am $7000 - $8000 in and There is no turning back but I learned a few things along the way. The parts are harder to find for a 60-62 because some of them are not reproduced. I swapped to a 700r4 which is a nice auto but I had to pull my engine make all new mounts remove a crossmember and make a new one. As far as body work. I would recomend doing all the bolt on work you can and some of the hard labor prep and leave the body filling and paint to a professional. The money that I spent on tools and supplies to do my own work I could have paid someone to do it for me and recieved a better job. If you like the truck then you should keep it. If your not sure then go check out the 66. You never know, You could end up with two projects. If I had it to do over again, I would get a 64+ because of the thngs I wanted to do to the truck.

Adam, bailing on your current truck is only a suggestion, and really, your truck is only a truck. The wife/truck analogy was just for fun and has nothing to do with anything... except that either can make your life a living hell if you get hooked up with the wrong one... Oops, Here we go again!
Anyway, from my perspective, for what you spend on replacement panels and body shop labor, you could EASILY pay to have a rust free truck in better shape shipped to you from a dry climate. The end difference is that a patched up piece of crap will always be just that. Likewise for a solid original. If you factor in all the headaches and substantial downtime of going with the lesser vehicle, the decision is easy. Trust me, you are not going to miss anything by starting with a better truck.

Very good point. I will have to weigh out the costs myself and make a decision from there.