The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Water leak at oil tube going into block from distribution unit

I filled the radiator for the first time yesterday on my 216, and got quite a leak at this point. This is the copper tube that feeds oil up to the rockers. This is a new tube installed when we had the engine out of the truck. It is the tube that lubes the lifters. The tube comes externally from the distribution unit and into the block through the water jacket and up into the push rod areaand on up to the rocker arms. The leak is at the compression fitting. Since the tube and fitting came as a unit, I didn't pull apart the compression fitting. Is there an O-ring or something inside the fitting that could be missing? The inner fitting threads so far into the outer fitting that it almost disappears inside it.

I do not want to take it all apart again. Could I solder the two fittings together to end the leak, or use some other form of material to stop the water leak? Ideas, anyone?

If the leak is at the compression fitting the only fix I'm aware of is to tighten the fitting more. The manual illustration appears to show a fitting that is able to be tightened. My '38 is as shown in the illustration. If you have something different I don't know what to tell you. There should be no "O" ring in the assembly. Maybe if someone else has had the same problem they will be able to help you more. Good luck.

Tiny, mine looks the same. The leak is where part numbers 836049 and 114952 fit together. 114952 is tightened to the point where I can't get a wrench on it anymore.

Did you put a thread sealer on the threads? The instructions call for "white lead" but I don't think that's available anymore. The instructions are on the picture posted.

Tom R,

If the male tube fitting went into the female adapter so far that the hex disappeared, it seems like something is not right, obviously. A thread sealant would be a thought, but this connection is suppose to be mechanical.

The male fitting should cinch around the tube and still have room to spare. If the tube were too small, this would account for it...but you purchased the tube assembly from a Bolt supply house as a unit.

Can you take the nut off and see WHY it isn't compressing. If it hasn't mashed around the copper tubing, it will come off, which it shouldn't do if it is fitting properly.

Mabye it's a new fangled style from China, and part of it is missing!

Stuart

Tiny, I made a rope of twisted teflon tape and wrapped it around the tube, then put some teflon tape on the threads and tightened it down. That helped, but didn't stop the leak entirely. The leak DID stop overnight, but it's still damp there, and once the engine is started and/or I hit a bump (assuming I ever get the truck on the road), I think it would leak again.

No, I didn't coat either the male or the female nipple with anything. The leak appears to be at the threads between the two, and some kind of locktite solution might be what I need to do. I would have thought, though, that the end of the male fitting would seat against the inside of the female fitting to provide the seal, thus thread dope wasn't important.

If it can be sealed that way, good. I thought soldering the joint at the end of the threads might do it better, and more permanently, but I don't have experience with soldering brass, and it's not in an easy spot to get to. I have no intention of taking the tube out again, and if I did, the engine would be out of the truck, and I could back out the female fitting until it snaps off, so soldering wouldn't hamper anything in the way of engine repairs.

Atomarc, I've been thinking like you - something is probably wrong with the fitting. I got the assembly from NAPA, and who knows where they get their stuff. I'm also dealing with NAPA to solve my other big leak, the water pump. I hope I have better luck with that.

Tom R,

I may be soaking wet on this, but the fitting that is leaking on your block is a very special item. I have hunted for the name of this item, but can't seem to find it. I have these at work on Lincoln Centromatic lubricators.

If you look at Tinys picture, you can see that this fitting has to seal the tube where it passes through the block. It has no end termination...it must seal around the outside of the copper tubing. I find it hard to believe that a NAPA store had the proper fittings.

I looked in Chevs of the 40s. They have this item in their catalog. I didn't realize it was such a bear to install. Maybe your "in situ" goop job will do the trick.


Stuart

Atomarc, it's a complete assembly, not just a collection of tubing and fittings. Well, it IS a collection of tubing and fittings, but it's already assembled when you get it.

I'm going to try the goop approach first.

Tom,

This may be off-base, but I think part of the problem might be the teflon tape you put around the tubing.

I can understand the teflon tape around the threads, as I did the same, when I replaced that tubing.

However, You shouldn't have to use anything but a "ferrell" (sp?) on the tubing and it should tighten down and seal around the tubing as you tighten the inner fitting into the fitting that goes into the block.

Here's a thought??? Are you missing the ferrell from around the tubing?

Tom R,

The proper fitting for that application is called a "threaded sleeve nut". It uses no sealant, has no ferrule, and it compresses around the OD of the tube as it threads into the sleeve nut adapter.

I know this is a moot point as R&R'ing it is a beast, but I thought I would just mention it.

I actually called my local NAPA store and described to them what I was after. I wanted to see if this item came as a "part" or was gathered up by someone and sold as a kit. If the latter were the case, maybe the incorrect parts were picked.

Good luck, and don't forget, there is always J-B Weld!

FOOTNOTE. NAPA manager returned my call. He searched his entire system and came up empty. :confused:


Stuart

Atomarc,

You are correct, I was trying to go by memory. After reading your post, the ferrule I remember was at the oil distributor end.

You are also correct, in that NAPA doesn't supply the parts needed. (Been there and checked that!) I also checked all of the other national auto parts and hardware chains, with no success.

I share your opinion that it uses no sealant, i.e. teflon tape, and still believe that it may have contributed to the leaking.

Tom, I apologize for the mis-information.

I'm rather surprised you're having so much difficulty. Perhaps I was just lucky, but when I replaced mine, it was a rather simple 15 minute task.

I'm not sure where you bought the kit, but the one I used was from Jim Carter's. Had everything (and more) that I needed to get the job done.

Been close to 2-years and not a drop of leakage.

Straight out of the manual guys: "Coat the threads of the nipple with white lead, thread the pipe throught the block and screw the nipple securely into the block. Install nipple and sleeve nut at the lower end of pipe, on the left side of the block, coating threads of nipple with white lead and tighten securely."
White lead was a thread sealant I believe. If TomR didn't use thread sealant in place of white lead that <could> be his problem.

Atomarc, I'm not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, so I often run into problems where others don't. A 15 minute task? I don't remember how long it took for us to install the tube when the engine was on the stand, but it would take a lot longer than 15 minutes when the engine's together and in the truck. It involves removing the head, the rockers, etc.

anyway, I don't believe the leakage is occuring between the tube and the ferule. I think (it's hard to see down there) that it's coming through the threads between the fittings. I've got the inner (male) fitting out, and I'm going back out to take out the outer fitting shortly. Maybe then I'll see something out of whack. Then perhaps I can whack it back into whack.

Jed, the leak slowed down quite a bit once I made my little teflon rope, but I also put the teflon on the threads at the same time, so who knows? If I can, I'm going to remove the teflon altogether and use some kind of thread sealer.

Somebody hold my feet, I'm going back in....

Tiny,

You are correct on all counts. Use whatever thread sealant you want on the NPT fittings where they screw into the block. This is what your spec sheet states, and it's SOP for this thread configuration.

The confusion lies with the "sleeve nut". You can see they make no reference to coating this item with white lead or anything...that's because it's a 100% mechanical seal. This has turned into much ado about nothing...I just think the fellow at NAPA gave Tom the wrong fitting. The sleeve nut and sleeve adapter are rare birds.

The installation instructions you linked are perfect...IF you use the proper fittings.

I sure hope I don't have to eat my words/opinion, but it sure as heck won't be the first time.

Stuart

Tiny, I don't think there was any question about coating the threads with something, and perhaps I mis-read Tom's post, but I thought he said he had put teflon tape around the tubing itself??? Which is why I suggested that that was possibly where the problem lie.

Tom, I seriously wasn't exagerating when I claimed 15 minutes (approx). That was with the engine in the truck, (less manifolds).

I'm not sure why you have to take the head off and remove the rocker assembly.

I removed the side cover, the valve cover, and the old tubing. Then I put the new tubing in place, tightened the soldered fitting on the passenger side, put the fittings in place and tightened the driver's side (the outer larger fitting into the block first, then the smaller fitting to seal the fittings to the tubing).

I then bent and connected the tubing to the oil distributor.

After that was done, I bent the tubing to fit under the side cover, ran it up through the head and connected it to the the rocker assembly. Lastly, ran the engine, checked for leaks, and put the covers back in place.

It might be a bit of a stretch, but the directions I received from a fellow over at the VCCA website were pretty explicit about making sure the tightening was done in that order and prior to doing any of the bending.

If you happened to have tightened the lower fitting before the top, you might have "tweaked" the tubing, thus generating the leak. Same type of experience if you tightened the lower fittings in the wrong order.

I hope that you are able to easily fix the leaking problem. However, contrary to the opinion of some of the others here, I would strongly suggest avoiding the JB Weld and other type sealers that have been suggested.

The fittings in the kits (if correct) should work together, properly, with no leaks.

Shoot Stuart, I've had to eat my words so many times I carry a salt shaker with me. I may yet get to do it again because after re-reading I see you were both referring to the sleeve nut....let's see, one shake or two.

Well, I'm going to eat some of my words right now. It turns out the tubing assembly came from Jim Carter, not NAPA. My old man got it, and he still has the receipt.

I removed the outer fitting and took out that teflon "rope" I put in there. I shined (shone?) a light in there, and it's evident the inner fitting had done its job. There's a slight ridge on the tubing where it compressed on it. Like I said, though, the leak appeared to be in the threads. Whatever I use as a substitute for white lead SHOULD do the trick.

Replacing the water pump was another exercise in futility. I DID get this part from NAPA, and mounted it without trouble. however, when I put on the fan blade I noticed that the bolts seemed to be going in awfully far. Thinking I was wrong, I lowered in the radiator and noticed I had extremely little clearance.


A brief look down behind the fan blade revealed the problem. The new pump has a cast iron pully, while the old one was stamped steel. The new one is more massive, and has a straight shoulder, while the old one had a rounded shoulder. Sure enough, the rivets from the fan blade were sitting up on the shoulder of the pully, and I was bending the middle of the fan blade in as I tightened it.

I started the "fix" by attempting to file off the inside edges of the rivets, but wasn't having much success, so I got out the Dremel tool and put in some relief channels where the rivets rode on the pully. Much better. Tightening down the fan blade straightened it out as well. I have the original clearance back. The S.O.B. better not leak!

Jed, you are quite the mechanic. I'm slower than molasses. It takes me 15 minutes to take off the acorn nuts. My apologies for doubting you.

Thanks to you all for helping.

Tom R,

Good for you. Persistence and standing on your head have paid off.

Jed,

My reference to J-B Weld was tongue-in-cheek. Sometimes it seems folks think this item is appropriate for everything from warts to trench mouth...aw, just stick some j-b weld on it!

Stuart

Another question while reading this thread, isn't "white lead" just the old school anti-sieze? It's just "graphite" instead of "lead" now. It's used to prevent gaulling, not as a sealer, right?
Scott

48bigtrucks, I just "googled" white lead and it seems that it was used as a putty and sealant. It appears it's still used for boats, but the main use had been as a white paint pigment, and it's one of the prime sources of lead poisoning.

I don't think I'd use this stuff even if I could get my hands on some.

Originally posted by Tom R:
Jed, you are quite the mechanic.

Tom, Oh but I wish that were the case. The part I didn't tell you was it took me darn near two weeks to get the courage to tear into that system. I'm still not sure where GM's head was when they designed that.

Stuart, sorry I misunderstood the "tounge in cheek" comments.

My experience has been very near what you describe. When I originally posted about my block being cracked a couple of years ago, I can't tell you how many advised that I should just throw some JBWeld on it and paint it.

Sounds like your making progress Tom. Congrats and good luck. I'm anxious to hear you've got the problem resolved and have moved onto the next challenge.

As for me, I'm now working up the courage to tear into my dual point flathead ignition system, that I know nothing about.

So Jed, when you replaced your tube, what did you use on the threads?

I'm not Jed (Jed says thank God!) but I'd try some plain old plumbers pipe dope. There are a couple of different types depending on the use. Read the package to see which will do the job.

Tom,

I believe I used teflon tape for the threads on both sides of the block, where the fittings went into the water jackets.

I don't remember using anything on the threads of either, the oil distributor, or the connection to the rocker assembly.

Tiny, These days, you'd probably be the one saying "Thank God, I'm not JED!".

Thanks Tiny, er Jed, er...

white lead. used as a thread sealant. red lead used as a thread sealant for petroleum. need heat to undo the pipe using red lead. to day pipe sealent is mostly teflon base. any plumbing paste for NPT (Pipe Thread). no sealant or tape on any compresion/flare type fittings.

Success!! My father talked to a plumber friend of his and got some kind of string and a white goop with teflon in it, and that did the trick.

We filled the system and saw no leaks. Then, for the first time in 17 years, started the engine and let it run for awhile. Still no leaks.

However, I'm off to the electrical forum for a question about smoking wires under the dash....

Thanks, everybody!!