The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts GEAR VENDOR! Reduce those rpm's.

I didnt know this and maybe some others new to the site wanting to reduce those engine revs dont know either.
http://www.gearvendors.com/cg2wdt.html

Yep, that's been noted before (search on +gear +vendors). At $3,000+, it's not surprising that we have not heard any/much first-hand experience with this adaptation.

There are several current add on overdrive units, and have been numerous different ones in the past.
As Tim said price is mostly why we don't see them so often.

In your searches.. at one point I posted a list of all the different ones that I could think of, and provided links where available.

Grigg

Hmmmm, sounds like a good Tech Tip ...


John

Its pricey but I'll save my nicles. The trade off is worth it. Im not getting rid of my old metal and the work it will do is worth the cost. I have almost nothing invested other than the new frame as all the work is done by elbow grease. For me its a win win.

I,ll have to go back and look again grigg and thanks for the reminder.

I've been wanting to try one of the Ranger units that go in front of the trans in my one ton.

Awsome! 50% less than the gear vendor. I only glanced at the web but will look closer to see if it works with the SM465.

The one with the 5.125" retainer index is for the SM465.

Gotta thank God. All my needed parts are falling in my lap like the snow is falling outside. Anymore price reductions out there? You guys and this forum are awsome!

I have a ranger od in front of a sm465 in my K30 haul truck.
It works great.the overdrive is nice,but the splitting of gears is awsome when loaded heavy.

I've done this math more than once and have each time concluded it was not worth it for me.

It comes down to the number of miles you'll drive over the period in which you want to break even on the investment, your estimate of fuel savings (which won't be as much as the OD percentage), your estimate of future fuel costs, and the time value of the money spent now versus buying fuel over time.

If you're the type who doesn't keep a vehicle very long the resale value might be another component.

If you are going to drive enough miles over the period where you need break-even it can be a good idea. I don't drive enough for it to make sense.

I've investigated all the different kinds of transmissions and overdrive units that I've heard of and that might work in something I build...
So far I've not been tempted in the least to buy any sort of add on overdrive. Just don't think they make sense for me. Don't have any personal experience, but none of them seem all that robust, and I know what the manufactures say, but listen to what people who use them say about them. I'm not implying that they are all bad, just they aren't always as great as they want you to think for every situation.
I do have a friend with a GV unit in a pickup with a Detroit, and it's been replaced a few times, They think it's the Jake brakes that kill it, they didn't know, nor did the manufacturer tell them, but it appears that it won't survive engine braking very hard. I've also heard something about the 4 cylinder Cummins not playing well with them, no hard facts, but worth researching and asking the manufacturer before trying to put one behind a 4BT.

Before I'd buy an overdrive unit I'd swap transmission and or rear axle. Or consider a real auxiliary transmission like a Spicer 5831.

Grigg

Grigg it always seems like class is in when you post. Your experiance and knowledge is always appreciated as well as everyone else that gives there advice. Thanks to you all.

Speaking of a Spicer 5831 auxiliary, there are three listed on ebay. I just posted them on the ebay-craiglist section. Not mine!

James

With the Ranger unit it looks like,0-60 in
fourteen shifts,that includes the rearend,
I hope I don't get lost inbetween shifts.

I like the idea of an auxiliary between the clutch housing and the main box. That way the auxiliary has to handle only the torque of the engine and not the torque of the transmission in the lower gears. Although I never owned one, I thought the Warn units of the 70's were a good idea, and the few I knew about were tough units. I don't know why the idea never caught on more than it did. As for the Gear Vendors units, I think they are meant for reducing RPM on an empty or lightly loaded vehicle. In direct, I think they are just as tough or probably tougher than the Borg Warner OD. Divorced auxiliary transmissions are not a cheap way of going faster. They require another drive shaft, elaborate linkage and a good strong crossmember on which to mount them. I haven't had an auxiliary transmission in an over the road truck in 40 years. They have their place in heavy haul which I don't do. Even though we grossed over 100,000 lbs. with grain until about 25 years ago when Texas started putting teeth in their load limit laws, I didn't need anything more than a 9 Speed. We now legally gross 84,000 in Texas and I use 10 speeds for the lower gear to untrack in soft sand. I still remember an ad that Cummins engine published in about 1977 which read "either you can get more gears or you can get more torque" when the developed the big cam formula engine. I chose the more torque route with their big cam engines.

[quote=crenwelge]I like the idea of an auxiliary between the clutch housing and the main box. That way the auxiliary has to handle only the torque of the engine and not the torque of the transmission in the lower gears.

Had not thought of it that way but I like the thought.

I also like the in front auxillary. I had a 1960 Willys that had a warn in front of the trans. I believe they are now called a Saturn overdrive. They are now being made with the original tooling here in the USA by the same people that make the Atlas and the Ranger. You can look them up at advanced adapters. The Warn/Saturn goes for about a grand. It was coolest thing ever, splitting those gears and took the brunt of off roading really well, although I was running a stock 226 hurricane 6. Its really nice having 2 gears in reverse.

My fun with the Willys, is the biggest reason that I will eventually put a ranger in between my sm420 and my 261. I've thought about tranny swaps, rear end swaps, and even the brownie. The ranger just seems the easiest. $1500 bucks, cut a hole in the floor for the shifter, shorten the drive shaft, and ready to go. Adding a brownie would require all of that, and a new cross member and finding a cheap enough one, that most likely would require a rebuild. I have no idea, but for some reason that doesn't seem too cheap to me. That and I don't think I would want to add 300-500 extra pounds to my truck, and an extra lower gear I don't think I need.

Changing, my rear end, I don't even want to touch that. I think that its beyond my skills. Not to mention that it will get expensive in a hurry.

But that's just me,
54Monster

Having looked at your project photos I can't believe you would think anything beyond your skills! A rear axle swap just isn't that hard to do. No more real work than the Ranger would be, maybe less because you don't have a transmission to hold and move.

Are there any shifting issues after installing the Ranger (the main shift lever will now be 7" further back)?

Do you need to install a rear transmission crossmember?

Mike B

Well I have to admit I realy wanted either the gear vendor or ranger but Michigan Truck Parts gave me an awsome deal on the 5831 in fabulous condition. Joint Clutch And Gear will make my drive shafts for $300.00. Connecting to a rockwell dually axle with 4:30 gear. Life is great!

Newby here. A fair amount of experience with the 5531 and 5831 boxes. Congrats Cajun on the find.
Which 5831 did you get (A, B, C, etc.)?

Journeyman, do you know what the Od ratio on either of those boxes the 55 or the 58, I've been looking but not too hard for one maybe two with somehwere in the .67 or .70 series range to put behind a 318 White to pick up top end, don't really care about the low side, just the direct and over, those on ebay seem a little pricey and to ship to Ca is a problem.
Thanks

A 5531 is an older version of the more common 5831.
A 5831 could have 0.73, 0.85, or no Over Drive at all.

Grigg

I have a 5831-A

0.73 OD
direct
1.54 under

I watched a lot of them go through salvage yard auctions for scrap iron price. I never bought one because I didn't have the linkage for them. I now have the linkage and really don't need to attend an auction unless I decide to send a load of salvage to a sale in Jackson MS next month. I might go just to watch.

I have a Brown-Lipe 5831 I am installing in my 1948 GMC 3 ton truck, 400 series. Any suggestions on where to buy rebuild parts, specifically bearings, seals and gaskets?

On overdrives, have a Road Ranger in my 1956 Chevy 3/4 ton NAPCO. This works very well. Bit of work having drive shafts sliced and diced but worth the effort.

Another up there asks about a rear transmission support when a Road Ranger is installed. Yes, you should do this. Not too difficult to fabricate, band brake mounting bolts are a good place to tag. Road Ranger, itself, has facilities for a support.

An SM420 weighs about 175 pounds. This is a lot of weight to hang on the back of an aluminum case Road Ranger. This also applies significant downward torque on the bellhousing bolts, like having a ten foot long crowbar attached.

I would not run a Road Ranger in a truck over 1 ton, torque would probably be too much. A Brown-Lipe (Spicer) would be a much better choice for 2 ton to 3 ton trucks.

Anyone, typical rebuild parts for a 5831 auxiliary trans?

Thanks, Billray

All parts are available for me through Michigan Truck parts: (Brand new). Perhaps a local truck parts dealer in your area would have the same?

The 5831 has been obsolete as far as commercial use goes since the 70's and parts are not readily available. I have seen them go through salvage auctions for scrap iron price. You might call some of these people to see if they still have parts.

http://www.partsbyweller.com/truck/WTlocations.htm
http://www.valtruck.com/contactus.php
http://www.geigertruck.com/
http://www.chalks.com/index2.html

I have dealt with all of the above companies and they are reputable rebuilders.

As for your discussion of road rangers I don't fully understand your reasoning. If you are speaking of the 2 bolts on the back on top of the transmissions, some truck manufacturers put a single leaf spring there which was usually omitted once the end bushings wore out or the spring broke. I have logged many million miles on tractors with Fuller transmissions without rear support. Cabover Internationals of the 70's were the last to use the spring leaf in the rear. As far as saying a RoadRanger has too much torque for anything over 1 ton makes no sense to me at all. The old 600 series Fullers and the current production FSO series transmissions are specifically built for 2 to 3 ton trucks.

Cajun comments, "Michigan Truck parts"

Thanks! Found the place on the web. I will give those boys a call about rebuild parts for my Brownie. Interesting, on their front page an ad for a side saddle fuel tank. Been shopping for a year for a decent tank, right dimensions, to mount on the side under bed. Looks about right, probably a 30 gallon. Stock tank behind the seat is too small for any distance driving.

Thank you, again, I will contact Michigan Truck Parts, looks good.

Billyray

Reminds me, Cajun, I am also looking for the same parts for my old Clark 5 speed crash box. I will ask about those parts as well.

For reader interest, my 48 GMC has a Clark 5 speed, will have a Brownie 3 speed and has a 2 speed rear axle. Probably take me a year to hit all the possible gears, if I can remember all those gears. I bought the Brownie primarily for the overdrive. Those of you with Big Bolt trucks understand why.

Lately, I have taken to bragging, "I will be able to get my truck up to 60 miles per hour, real hot rod!"

I figure she will do zero to 60 in about an hour.

Billyray

Crenwelge provides some websites.

Thanks, I am looking at those now. Bound to find a parts supplier.

Crenwelge adds, "As for your discussion of road rangers I don't fully understand your reasoning."

Uh oh. We are talking two different transmissions. You have been driving big rigs too many years!

Advance Adapters builds an overdrive named a "Road Ranger". Small aluminum case transmission, 2 speed, direct and over. Weighs less than a hundred pounds. Looks AA now calls this simply a "Ranger" transmission, or I am age addled. You can look here:

Ranger Overdrive

Price has not changed in almost ten years. Has a gross vehicle rating of 25,000 pounds. I would not want to risk taking this one over 15,000 pounds or so. Above this, I think this would be too much stress for an aluminum case.

Thanks for those websites, I am off and looking.

Adding a note here, Crenwelge, Weller Truck has a location about 20 miles from me. I will visit them.

Billyray

I mounted a NP 205 transfer case backwards in my 1947 2-ton truck for a over drive. My truck has a modern engine with a electric solenoid, so I made a linkage that is similar to the old starter button linkage, accept I have a gearshift lever through the starter button hole and a arm that connects to a rod that shifts the transfer case. So I can just put the starter boot on the shifter and it looks almost factory. The transfer case is mounted just behind the cab. I haven't been able to try it yet though; I was putting the overdrive in while I restored it and I decided before I finished painting the frame to change the last wheel cylinder that hadn’t yet sprung a leak. Well my axle came out hard and wouldn’t go back in. I’d lost a ring gear carrier bearing at some point and now I have no rear end gears… from the look of things I think I actually bought the truck like that. The axle I took out had painted numbers and not to mention my carrier has some serious wear on the axle insert hole and the axle has none… so it was replaced at some time… and the hole rear-end was put back together with silicone and brand new oil.
Anyway if I ever get it back together we’ll see how it works. The only thing about it is I’ll have to shift the OD at low speeds and I probably won’t be able to go above 3rd gear on the main tranny. The overdrive is .86 in that gear and about .5 in 4th . Any buddy for cursing at 90mph at 2400rpm? (I really doubt if the 261 can do that)

Me thinks... their is a little confusion between the "Ranger" aux. alum. transmission that mounts in front of your 4 or 5 speed and the "Road Ranger" big (10 wheeler) truck transmission. I think that one is made by Fuller.

"Ranger" sold by AA
"Road Ranger" = Fuller

Anyway...been thinking about the "Ranger" Aux. for awhile for my 1 ton.

292/Ranger/NV4500....Will swap the Rear Axle ? Thinking Corp. 14 bolt 4.11/4.56

JD49 writes, "...been thinking about the "Ranger" Aux. for awhile for my 1 ton."

Those _Ranger_ overdrives are very nice, least if you are not age addled like me and confuse names of transmissions.

Years back, Jesse James of Sandra Bullock fame, turned me onto one of those to solve a problem with highway speed in my 3600 four wheel drive Chevy, a NAPCO truck.

Originally, I talked with him about old Warn overdrives which bolt on the back of a Dana transfer case. Had one of those in a cab-over Jeep FC-170. Nice truck, rue the day I sold it decades back when young and stupid. Today, I am just stupid. The Warn overdrive was nice but hard to shift and not all that strong. Warn design is planetary gears much like an old Chevy 3 speed with an overdrive unit.

Besides, my Chevy had a divorced transfer case, huge Rockwell built back in 1942 year; a rock crusher. Impossible to mount a Warn overdrive, even with a fancy adapter.

We discussed Brown-Lipe auxiliary transmissions and decided those are too long and too big to use in a four wheel drive; too radical of an angle on a driveshaft. Back then, Jesse had his motorcycle shop and ran a sideline business of making driveshafts, "Extreme Angle" or some similar shop name, age addled, cannot rightly remember.

He walked me to the back of his shop, showed me a Ranger overdrive. Right then, I knew this was the solution.

Again, nice trans, shifts good, design is much like a regular transmission, easy to install. Only requires shortening your driveshaft or, if four wheel drive, longer in front, shorter in back. Problem free installation with expected modifications, such as adding a support frame somewhere along the line because of being a four wheel drive; long length, lot of weight.

Well, one problem but not with the Ranger. On a 235 Chevy six, lower two bellhousing bolt holes are threaded, bolts thread into the bellhousing from the outside. Shifter on a Ranger is on the driver's side. The shift cover is in the way of inserting a long enough bolt to fully thread into 235 six bellhousing, lower driver side bolt hole. You either remove the shifter cover to have room to slip in a long bolt, or drill out your threaded bellhousing bolt hole then insert the bolt from inside the bellhousing. I lucked into an oddball allen head bolt which just barely passed the shifter housing with a little grinding on the Ranger case. Need to grind a bit on a washer, oval shape it.

This problem is only with old 235 six cylinder bellhousings.

Overall, great transmission. Smooth, strong, easy shifting. Some complain about transmission whine. I have not noticed this. However, hard to hear much over the growl of my SM420 4 speed and I am half deaf, old worn out hairy big ears.

Final installation is I modified my SM420 with a longer internal main shaft, rear aluminum adapter, then a Dana 20 direct mount transfer case. With the seven inch Ranger, overall length of this system had both drive shafts within a couple inches of original location.

With the Ranger 27% overdrive, I can comfortably cruise at 65, not much more than this, though. Now I don't have all those bats out of hell on the freeways honking their horns at me while flipping me the bird. Suppose I am a bit old and slow, like my truck.

Billyray