The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop 54 Chevy - Monte Carlo front clip steering questio

I have a 1954 Chevy 5 window truck with a 1978 Monte Carlo front clip and 4.3 liter V6 engine. I am experiencing a little oversteer when coming into a sharp turn (no play in steering wheel, just too easy to steer and causes you to oversteer). You can turn the steering wheel with one finger with ease. Is there a way to put more drag so the steering does not feel so easy to turn which causes you to oversteer. Is there a way to adjust or tighten the steering box (to make it feel tighter with more drag, etc. (not via the nut and slotted screw method on top of steering box) I know you have experienced this yourself in the past. I was told to try and install a Super Sport box because they had tighter steering, ????) Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks. Jon

I question whether the steering box is the problem.

Oversteer can be compensated for with sway bars and adjustment of tire pressure and I'd at least look at that before changing the steering box.

There is a torsion rod inside a steering box that affects the feel of a power steering box. If I were wanting to change the feel of one of the Saginaw boxes like yours, I'd look for one with a fatter torsion rod. That could be the Super Sport box but I'd make sure before trying that.

A while back someone pointed me at a number of online articles explaining all these details.

Here are the links, I don't recall which article talked about the torsion rod.

http://www.fourwheeler.com/techarticles/drivetrain/129_0801_saginaw_steering_box_rebuild/index.html

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/te..._cpp_saginaw_600_steering_box/index.html

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_0901_gm_steering_box_upgrade/index.html

http://www.off-roadweb.com/tech/0501or_4wd_steering_box/index.html

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_0901_gm_steering_box_upgrade/photo_14.html

http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/2007/09/01/hmn_feature21.html

Thanks for responding. The truck has new tires, also has front and rear sway bars. I will read the articles and see if any of them make sense to me. I believe the 78 Monte Carlo has a 800 box on it but not sure.

If I remember correctly the Monte was available with both the big and the small box. A '78 should have the SAE box, but later years had the Metric box.

I don't remember how I think I know those details, but I did once own a '78 Monte Carlo.

Jon,.check a front end aliment first. had the same trouble with my 51 with a camaro front clip.NAPA makes a upper control arm on the A frame giving you more adjustment on your camber.there rods are around 75bucks both sides.good luck.there offset too give you more adj

Thanks dan-pa. The truck has a new front end alignment. One more question, would putting aluminum ratchet spring wedges (the kind you place between the front coil spring and turn with a socket wrench to adjust height) in the springs make the steering a little more stiffer. The front end has 2" dropped spindles. Would this help the steering any.

http://rides.webshots.com/album/575189745DQhwph

No, those will not help the steering at all. What they will do is put extra stress on the springs, causing premature breakage. Just judging from how you describe the handling, the alignment is off, namely, it sounds like you have negative caster. Have them set the caster to about 3.5-4.5 degrees. Camber should be about .5-.75 degrees positive, with about 1/16"-1/8" toe in.

Thanks, just had the front end aligned, I will take your note to them and see what they say. I appreciate everyones input.

Checked with my alignment man and he says that the power steering pump is letting too much fluid through and needs a stiffer spring on the valve body of the pump. He explains that this is why the steering is so loose, too much fluid. Any thoughts on this...?

What is your power steering pump? The problem he describes is common using a GM pump with a Ford rack but if your pump is compatible with the GM box it doesn't seem likely.

I believe the pump came with the 78 Monte Carlo front clip. Today I have talked to 5 people who are mechanics, I think I got about 5 different ways to fix the problem. One says its the valve in the pump, another says its the valve spring, then another says it needs positive caster, another guy says it needs negative caster, and then one says to try and turn out the screw and nut on the steering box. Guess I'm even more confused. Hate to throw money at something and it will not fix the problem. Two of the guys I talked with are alignment mechanics, one says positive and the other negative caster. What would your advise be or recommendations for me to try first. I can get a free alignment at the local trade school here in my town by students and an instructor Another at the local Chevy dealer ($$$$) which did the original alignment. Any help or comments would be appreciated. I'm kind of leaning toward alignment again.

The one that told you negative caster is wrong, positive caster gives you stability. nagative caster porvideds for easier steering, but is unstable. You don't see negative on too many cars these days, last time I did one that was negative was a '66 Thunderbird. Needed to be nagative because of how for forward the engine was. It wouldn't steer other wise.
I, too find overboost unlikly, as the box and pump are matched. I would test the pump before condemning it.
If the dealer won't warrantee the alignment, get you money back.
BTW, I've been an alignment mechanic for almost 20 years, and am a Certified Master Mechanic..

Thanks LongBox, after alot of debate on this issue today, I also decided to align again with POSITIVE caster. Someone today told me that negative would make it steer even easier. Its good to speak with someone with experience since you can sometimes get bad info from someone. I think I can get an alignment from the local tech school here but may go back to the original person who aligned it. Only problem, he is the one who thinks its the pump. Again, thanks.

Hi, Ive got a pickup almost identical to yours. It's a 50 1/2 ton with a 79 Skylark clip and it also is V6 powered. My trucks been together for about 22 years now, but not all that time on the road. I don't know how to leave well enough alone, so I'm always changing something. Anyway, just like your's, my truck steers extremely easy, even with 4 degrees positive caster. I always attributed my easy steering to the relatively light weight of the front of the truck, and the fact that my engine is set back probably 4 inches from it's stock location on the subframe taking even more weight off the front. The engine just looked better to me tucked up against the firewall. I am probably going to upgrade to a quick ratio steering box which should increase my steering effort. I may also play with the flow control valve in the pump to reduce the operating pressure. As Longbox says, you want positive caster, I would run from the mechanic who suggested negative caster he has no idea what he's talking about.

John

its the caster or valve on the ps pump remove the valve and install move shims

I have a similar situation. My '52 Ford F1 pickup has a '79 Monte Carlo front clip, installed by a previous owner. I have been doing a major overhaul of the truck. The problem I have with the steering was that it tends to wander, as well as too much slack in the steering. I installed a new PS pump, new steering box, all new A arm bushings, ball joints, and offset upper A arm pins to gain more camber.

The truck drives much better now, but the steering is still what I would consider "darty" because I can only get the caster up to -3 deg without sending the camber negative. The negative caster is what causes it to wander. I'm currently evaluating options on how to get more positive caster (which is how I found this thread). Moog makes upper A arm bushings with eccentric holes that could add caster, but I haven't found one that fits the G Body control arms.

Several vendors makes adjustable tubular A arms, but they're expensive.

Another option that I'm considering is taking it to the frame shop and having them bend the crossmember to give me enough positive camber that I can use shims to get more positive caster.

By the way, it's pretty easy to eliminate your power steering pump as the culprit. I got mine up to about 50MPH going downhill, slipped it in neutral, and turned OFF the ignition (which renders you NO power steering assist). I found that my truck still wandered even with the engine OFF, which told me that it was somewhere in the geometry and not in the hydraulics.

-DV

The more that I read, the more that I'm concluding that the frame shop is the way to go.

-DV