The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 216 or not???

Hello all, I have a 1947 Art Deco I’m looking to get it running it has the original 216 it turns but it turns hard. I’m wondering should start be rebuilding the 216 or upgrade to a 235 or 261 budget is limited. Any thoughts?

here are some pix!!!!

give the 216 to a high school... if we don't start letting the kids experiment w/ this old stuff it's a sad place.
go w/ 250 or 261

just two weeks ago a 250 and 4 speed tranny i looked at were given away b4 i got it. i did see it and she was very complete. it was removed from a camaro and a new 350 V8 replaced it.... for a hopped up camaro resale

they're out there

pull the plugs b4 you turn it over

Give that old 216 a shot. You might be surprised. Can't hurt to at least start it and see what it sounds like.

I tried starting it but the starter will not turn it over unless I put 12v to it. does anybody know a good place to look for engins?

Does anybody know a good place to look for engines?

Could it be that the starter has problems? See if the engine will turn over by hand. If the engine is free, it could be bad windings in the armature.
For an engine if you do need one, check the parts for sale forum, I have seen at least 2 235s for sale in the last few days. Hemmings Motor News and Cars&Parts may yeild them also.

Longbox is correct about checking the starter first. You can get 216 rebuilt kits at Kanter, Chevs of the 40s, The Filling Station and several other places. Kanter offers a lifetime guarantee on theirs and they aren't much more expensive. If you want to keep your truck numbers matching you have to keep the 216. If that doesn't matter you can put anything you want in it. My 38 is my first 216 & I've kinda grown partial to it. It's a pretty cool old engine.

the starter seems fine.

1947RBT:

My advice on what engine to throw in there depends upon what you're going to use the truck for.

The 216 is a great little engine. I can work on it. The main drawback is that with the babbited bearings and the splash oiling, you can't rev it over 3000-3500 without blowing something.

The full pressure 235 is also a great little engine. You can wind it out to 4500 without messing anything up, and it's also easy to work on. To swap in a 235, there's not a whole aweful lot that you have to do. It's pretty much, "pull the 216, drop in the 235, wipe hands on pants".

Anything larger (261), GM (228, 248, 302), or newer (230, 250, 292, V8) will have a longer "modification" procedure for the swap. They can (and have) all been done before, and all of the owners who have done the swap seem to like their new engines.

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As Tiny mentioned, if you want a "numbers matching", "completly correct" restoration, then the 216 has to stay.

If you just want to tool around a little bit on weekends, then the 216 should be fine for that, too. A Full Pressure 235 would also work well in that application.

If you're going to drive it every day, then I'd probably throw a 235 (or maybe even a 261 or a 292, if I could get my hands on one) in there. Something a little newer and a little bigger.

I'd stay away from the V8. IIRC, there is a fairly extensive steering mod that is necessary on the AD trucks. Of course, I'm pretty lazy. I don't like doing any more work than necessary.

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Regarding the starter issue:

I am now going to ask some fairly obvious questions... I didn't see the answers above.

What happens if you hand crank it? Is it difficult to crank, or does it move freely?

Is there oil in the crank case?

If yes, when was the last time it was changed?

Is the starter a 12v starter?

In their day,the 216 was an equal to similar sized engines,even those with full pressure lubrication.Frank McGurk,the famous Chevy and GMC tuner,used to race modified 216 and 235 splash oil lube engine with the stock oiling system.He claimed the goofy oil system was reliable up to 150 HP and 4200 rpm's.This is circle track racing where the engine was full throttle for quite a period of time.Athough McGurk did modify cranks for full oiling,he claimed that up to the limits mentioned above,there was no reliability difference between the two oiling systems.Big Chevy trucks with these engines were driven wide open against the governor(about 3200 rpm)for hours on end.As a young man I had a job delivering stone using an early 50 ish 6 wheel Chevy dump truck powered by a 235 splash engine.I drove it like a typical kid,every gear reved to the max,wide open down the hiway,beat the snot out of it.After about 8 months of brutal treatment,the rod bearings did get to knocking,the mechanic re shimmed the rods,and off I went for more abuse.
Much of the "fragile" reputation is from worn out engines in need of an overhaul many years after the 216 was out of production.Or engines hacked by home mechanics who messed up the adjustment on the oiling system.
If a completely original truck isn't important,a later 235 is a better choice,easier and cheaper to rebuild properly and more powerful of course,and more reliable id you drive foot to the floor all the time..But if the old splash oiler is in fine shape,run it hard till it blows,lol.
The 216 is sorta like the Flathead Ford V-8,some say it's an overheating gutless pig(me)but it was the hot rodders choice for 25 years.
Brendan M by the way,if a 235 fits,so will a 261,they are both identical in external size.

Huh.

I thought that they were taller.

[shrugs]

To go along with what Tony said. I've been told by others that the splash engines were preferred by hotrodders of that era because they were more reliable. As I noted in another thread I spoke with a fellow that owns a 39 sedan with the babbetted 216. He regularly drives 70+ on interstates without hurting the engine because he replaced the stock pistons with aluminum pistons. The light weight pistons take most of the stress off of the babbett.

I had my 216 rebuilt including staying with the original babbit bearings. I absolutely love it, but then I like things closer to stock than most. My brother in law swapped out his 216 and put in a 235. His engine is "as is" that is he didn't get it rebuilt. Took him some work to get the water pump clearances right etc. He chided me for staying with the 216 until he found himself working hard to keep up with me on our way to car shows. The 235 is a more powerful engine, especially the high compression ones used later, but to maximize you'll need to rebuild it, too. So seems the choice is rebuild the 216 or replace it AND rebuild the new 235.

1947RBT,

Howdy! I have not seen your posts before..I was unaware that another of "my kind" had joined the board from the Minnesota area.

In regards to your question on where to find another engine, drop me an E-mail..I know where you can find one or two.

Also, not to hijack your thread, but where did you find your truck?

You have a lot of resources such as sand blasters and powder coaters in the north metro.

RBT,

E-mail in your in-box....

thank you all for feedback
Brendan M
hand turning seems hard but I have not bilt somthing to do it right.

crank case i did not check but i will this weekend and i know it has been 8 yrs sense anything has been chaged.

and NO it is a 6v

46:
I have been looking for art deco in MN but hard to find at all are you going to back to the 50 ??

The truck is at my dads in WI and he has almost anything i need.

47 RBT,

If I go to BT 50's, it will probably be for the swap only. I should have gone today. I am watching the kid 4 soccer games between Fri and Sunday afternoon, so not much time for trucks this weekend.

keep what ya got. i just got a 48 3/4 ton chevy thats all stock and has been sitting for 20 yrs. i got her started today and drove it around the farm.most fun ive had in awhile.

look around 235,s can be found for little money,,moer HP and better oiling...doc