The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop Stovebolt vs, Small Block V*

I have read many articles and threads regarding the "upgrade" of an early 60's truck. Keep the 6; trade for an 8. Many opinions I would guess. Some based on emotion alone. I intend to use this truck as a towing vehicle for a small Trailer between 18 and 22 ft. I truley like the idea of upgrading the six. Webrodders Stroker (260 if I can find one) and full oil system.) and keeping with period correct externals. Intake/carbs/exhaust mods for the "look" and Performance. Please make your arguments for and aginst. I may be basing my trend on emotion also.

How much does the trailer weigh, where do you want to tow it, and how fast do you want to go.

While someone will jump in here say back in the day they hauled huge loads with a 235, the truth is they didn't go very fast that way. And going up hills was slow going.

What rear gears are you running?

For a truck asked to work I'm likely to conclude the six is the wrong motor, but before making that assessment a good understanding of your expectations is important.

All I want to say is sixes produce a boat load of torque which is nice for towing and are very buildible. Plus you can stay with the stock look. I vote SIX

I can't speak for the six, because I've never had one that was set up well. However, I'm sure you can make one pull.

On the other side, I'm running a 350, 4 speed Saginaw, and 3:38 rear gears. I've pulled quite a few trailers with the '58. Most of the time hauling a vehicle. The truck has good low end torque as well as being able to run 70 loaded. You'd be hard pressed to talk me into swapping for a 6.

If you are familiar with the 292 engine, they produce as much torque as a 350, thus a 6 that pulls very well. If you do a few modifications you can expect 275 to 300 horsepower. There is not a reason to go to an 8 cyl., the 6 can perform very well.

they hauled huge loads with a 235, the truth is they didn't go very fast that way. And going up hills was slow going
X2

There is nothing (short of a blower) that you can do to a 261 that will produce the same power as a stock 350. Kitchen sink: perhaps 250 hp.

There are no "torquemonsters". The boat load of torque is between 1 and 1.25 ft./lbs. per inch - the same as anything else. It's just at lower and more useful RPM.
A 300 hp 292 will tow the skin off a chocolate pudding at 3,000 RPM, but not much else since the extra power is 2,000 above where you want it, and the 3,000 RPM power is less than stock.
This is the exact opposite of what you want - an engine that needs to be spun off the dial to pull a trailer.
If you want an older L6 get a 302.
If you just want an L6 get a 4200.
I've done some light towing (1 ton Powerwagon, 318 4-speed + car carrier) and 230 hp was never enough.

chevman32 that statement is limited. While correct, the 292 does build good torque, comparing it to a 350, has to be done by comparing what 350 (over the years there have been way to many power outputs to list).

With a 292, you can get some torque. It requires a hand full of new parts.

If you want serious torque in an L6 - go Cummins 6B. If that is not enough torque stock, then have the fuel curve tweeked.

If keeping with a gas engine, I would opt for a 383 stroker. If you want vintage look, put on chevrolet script valve covers.

I should most likely not get into this, I've had inline sixs from 1929 194 to 67 292 , I've owned 235's Chevy II 194's 1963 c 10 with a 250, and a 69 Tempest over head cam inline six and a 1954 Plymouth flat head I LOVE THEM, then I have had V8's 265,283,307, 327,and a diesel 6.2 Chevys, + Buick nail head, 57 Pontiac 347,and a Ford 302 +Mercury, some I liked most disliked ! To me basicly a V8 is what it is shaped like a BOAT ANCHOR, BILL

Emotionally, I'm all for an L6, but towing shortens my temper quite a bit (try to pull out and pass on a grade).
If the gearing is tall and transmission ratios wide, a 292 may very well have better torque than a V8 - at the RPM range you're in (that's where the comparison has some validity: the peak torque per inch isn't too much different, but the "mildness" of the L6 leaves it down where you can use it without down-shifting). My 1/2 ton Chevy 292 3-on-the-tree amazed me at how well it felt in traffic - no need for revs, just ease the clutch out and press down.
The more power you try to get out of anything by any method (except high compression or displacement increase) moves the power away from your cruising RPM, and as it gets hotter the low speed power is significantly worse than stock.
A truck is tall enough to accept a 4200 (very tall engine - too much for most cars), but it's about 275 hp, and they're cheap enough but the EFI and spark have to be bought ($$$) or fabricated. They're also ugly as sin.
There are no car-size (under 800 lbs.) L6 engines out there bigger than the Ford 300, so displacement is always a problem.

Part of the six versus eight difference is simply cubic inches. There are few sixes larger than the 300 cube neighborhood and most that are don't belong in a car or light truck.

Lots of eights are a lot bigger than 300 cubic inches. The old saw there is no substitute for cubic inches is true. If you need more power more cubes is one sure way to get it.

Torque can be achieved through gears if not produced directly by the motor. Lots of the older six powered vehicles had deep rear gears to create torque. Now days a recurring theme here is how do I change my gears to get some highway speed.

I am very satisfied with the GMC 270 in my Suburban except when I try to pull a trailer with it. I am satisfied with the TBI 350 in my '91 K2500 until I pull a heavily loaded trailer with it. My old K3500 with a 454 would easily out pull either of the other trucks with smaller motors.

Can a six be made that will pull like that 454? Sure, the Cummins BT-6 has similar horsepower and torque specs and a good reputation for working hard. Will one of the now obselete GM gas powered sixes compete? I don't think so, at least not without spending big dollars are modifications.

The answer to this question really has to go back to the owner's performance expectations. My 270 powered Suburban will not fulfill my expectations pulling a trailer. If that was my purpose for that vehicle it would be a failure. But then the 454 powered K3500 didn't always go fast enough for me either.

If the owners expectations can be met with a 235/261/270/292/302 then great, run a six. If not either adjust the expectations or get a motor (likely a V-8 if gas powered) that will do the job and remember that performance is a package deal. The rear gears, tire height and transmission all have to be chosen and coordinated with the end in mind.

Westers Garage will program a stand alone ECM for the 4200 for cheap.

The dimensions of a 4200 (length and hight) are almost identical to the 235. They are wider, though.

a 292 may very well have better torque than a V8 - at the RPM range you're in (that's where the comparison has some validity: the peak torque per inch isn't too much different, but the "mildness" of the L6 leaves it down where you can use it without down-shifting). My 1/2 ton Chevy 292 3-on-the-tree amazed me at how well it felt in traffic - no need for revs, just ease the clutch out and press down.
interesting.
As far as producing power? Not really. The characteristics that produce low-speed torque can be obtained from any engine at all, regardless of the configuration, number of cylinders, etc. If you really wanted to spend the money, a Ferrari V12 could be made to pull stumps out of your yard.
a real "charmer" told me this one time.

is this where the old comes in. with age comes wisdom!
ron

well i have 235, ported & polished head,cam, 4bbl 390 holly and all that fun stuff. i pull a 2ton work trailer and it does the job just fine.(65 mph UP hill)
here is the BUT.
$$$ the amount of money i put into it was much more than if i would have just dropped in a 350 crate long block.
the other BUT
i wouldn't change it for the world.
i love my SIX.
that's my two cents