The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 235 into '31 chevy coupe

since i'm new here, allow me to introduce myself. my name is ed and i spend all of my day thinking about or working on old cars. call it a habit. just last night, another one followed me home. this one is a '31 chevy utility coupe (ute). what's a utility coupe, you ask. well, this '31 started life as a standard coupe, until it was taken to sears-roebuck, where it was fitted with a pickup bed in place of the trunk. think of it as an extended cab pickup. now that the ute's in my hands, i'm gonna be making a mild hot rod out of it. so here's my question:

the '31 chevy utility coupe still has its original 194. however, it also came with a rebuilt 235 of 1962 vintage. what do i need to do to swap in the newer engine? is the procedure the same as the one used to swap a 235 into a 216 application?

thanks,
ed

a picture of the ute may be pertinent..

[img]http://photo.starblvd.net/~edmurder/3-1-1.jpg?i=1048058903[/img]

Great looking truck thing there. Would the original motor run? I guess too slow. Please don't cut the roof.

Ed, the answer to your question about it being as simple as a 235/216 swap is NO.

There was a post on this board about a month ago with regard to a 235/207 swap (1934..1936 chevy inline) that will likely be a lot more appropriate. If you have a 62 235, you will probably also want to get a later bellhousing / tranny so you can have synchro's for smoother shifting. Looks like a neat project!

Welcome. Fairly rare piece of iron you have there, I'd plan it out very carefully before starting--those vehicles are seen fairly infrequently. Pretty valuable restored stock.

recognizing the rarity of the vehicle and it's excellent body lines, i have no intention of hacking up the body (not too much anyway.. i do plan to fill in some holes in the cowl & firewall). i prefer subtle modifications that clean up the original lines of the vehicle. further, the cab's already pretty tight without lowering the lid.

here are my plans:

install the 235. (ps- i did check out the other threads on swapping out the 206/207, but they weren't that helpful, as they both applied to 35/6 trucks, not 31 cars).

i plan to use a later synchronized 4-spd and install an open rear (55-57 chevy?)

i want to lower the truck 4-6" while retaining the straight axle. i may switch to a drop axle if i can find one. ifs is NOT an option.

i'd like to switch to hydraulic brakes. will 49-54 spindles bolt up to the stock axle?

thanks!
ed

What a great project and no V8. I am jealous.

edmurder, great ideas you got, a little hot rodding in the vintage style, nice. The king pins that fit your front axle, go from 1928 until at least 1937. 37's have hydraulic brakes so maybe the spindle will swap over, I bet it will. The drum brakes on a 37 will stop a a light truck ok.

Welcome to Stovebolt EdMurder.
I recognize your screen name from the H.A.M.B.
You'll find this group very helpful and quite 'peaceful' compared to other forums
Keep us posted on your progress,
whizzerick

who says the hamb isn't peaceful?!? watch out for germ, keep it traditional, remember to make an intro, and above all else, never, ever mention vw's or musclecars! the hamb is my preferred message board for the exact reason that it drives a lot of people away -- it has attitude.

back to technical issues...

my clutch and brake pedals both mount to the bellhousing (or so i am told). can i run the late 235 and a synchronized 4-spd using an older bellhousing that would still locate my pedals?

thanks
ed

Yeah the HAMB is the place for some things, lots of attitude, lots of info sometimes.
On my 37 I used a 48-53 truck clutch housing, the one with the flat bottom ,not angled on the corners, will accept all Chevy car transmissions from 55 up.Made a bracket from steel to secure the pedal shaft to the housing.Had to do some grinding on the housing to get it all in the proper location,has worked out fine for 6 years. Other guys made a large angle bracket, one end bolts to the frame the the pedal shaft bolts to the other end.Do it with a motor block in place, you need to mock up the pedals and keep the simple clutch linkage lined up to avoid binding.
crude and effective

Jim Carter sells a 47-53 bellhousing with the part to bolt the pedals welded to it for 31-7 trucks,should work in your project. I bought one for my 37 but have not installed it yet,I hope they got the bolt holes for the pedals on it right cause its going to be next winter before I get to changing the trans and rear. I think they are around a hundred dollars plus a core charge

jeff- it's amazing what mr. carter's doing after all those years of being president. does he have a website/catalog/phone #? i'll prolly end up making my own bracket ($$$), but it wouldn't hurt to check out what he has.

tony- hmmm... 37 brakes... do you know if a 49-54 spindle could be adapted to the 31 axle? they're a lot more common and i bet the brakes work better. thanks for the bellhousing photo

ed

ps. thanks for the info, guys.

Jim carters truck parts phone number is 1-800-336-1913 web site is www.oldchevytrucks.com

Murder,the later spindles have larger king pins.Some say the later Bendix brakes are better.

tony- larger seems like an easier problem to deal with than smaller. how much of a size difference are we talking? assuming there's enough meat in the casting, is there any reason why the '31 axle couldn't be bored out to fit the larger kingpins?

jeff- thank you for the jim carter link. the bellhousing you mentioned is only $125, which seems reasonable. however, i'm not sure that it would work with the later 1962 engine. do all 216-235-261 engines have the same bolt pattern?

that leads me to another question.. what transmission am i looking for? i know that i would like a 4-speed synchronized gearbox. do they all have a granny low gear, or are there some that are spaced out more evenly like a car tranny? what are my options?

thanks again
ed

Might be easier to locate a 37-40 front axle, should be some laying around, check the swap meet here on Stovebolt.

That bellhousing will work on the 62 235,I presently have a 41 216 bellhousing on a 57 235 in my 37. With it you can use a muncie or saginaw 4 speed or a fully syncro 3 speed and even a later 4 speed with granny gear if so desired.

tony- sorry to keep pestering you with questions! is the the '37-'40 axle the same size as the '31 axle, and what spindles fit onto the '37-'40 axle? are we talking about a car or truck axle? i may have a line on an old parts manual...

jeff- thanks! that's exactly what i needed to know.

tony-

thank you for the information you've given me so far. old chevy knowledge is a bit harder to find than it is for old ***** . through the network of evil know as the hamb, i've found a local gentleman who is willing to donate either a '35 or '39 axle (both with brakes, etc still attached). the '35 has a 5x5-3/4 bolt pattern while the '39 has a 6 lug pattern. would either of these work well in my '31? what would be the benefit of switching to a later axle (other than hydraulic brakes)? are there any other parts i may want to snag from either of these cars?

thanks again
ed

Ed,

Please proceed carefully!

Very few post'37 parts "just drop into" pre-'37 cars OR trucks!

The '36 and earlier crossmember has to be extensively modified to accomodate the '37 & later bell housing; pedals were mounted on the bell-housing through early '47 on the trucks.
(I have seen several early '30' Chevies butchered this way.)

All truck four-speeds had a granny-low, the '47 and earlier trannys were un-synchronized, and can be easily id'd by a little finger-trigger & rod under the shifter knob, to get it into "reverse".

Wheels & bolt patterns: all Chevy sixes ('29-48 cars & 1/2 ton trucks through'66) had six-lug wheels; the 16" '47-'54 1/2 ton truck wheels will bolt onto the '31 hubs. The original wire wheels would've been 18" or 19".

While the '62 235 may fit between the firewall and the radiator, if that stock x-member has to be modififed, it would be better to drill-out the rivets and remove it intact, and get a tube x-member kit or an aftermarket x-member to accomodate your new power plant.
The key tenent to "resposible" modification is "reversability": the ability to return your project to stock some day (which is hard to do when something's been chopped, welded ,channeled, etc.). The old-time rodders referred to this approach as "bolt-on mods"; this way, they could keep their "goodies" and put the car back to stock so that it had some resale value when they wanted to sell it & get a new project.

My Dad's first car was the family hand-me-down 1930 Chevy Standard coupe (no rumble seat, no quarter windows) - the year was 1947 - and we presently have a 1930 Chevy Special Sedan.

My suggestion (and it's offered only as a polite idea) would be to restore this buggy stock; perhaps rebuilding the original 194 but upgrading to insert rod & main bearings; you could find a set of 16 inch '47-'54 truck wheels & baby-moon caps to get that "fifties rod look",and so on.

I think you have a neat, rare piece; I wouldn't want to see something like this "ir-reversibly" modified.

Best regards,

Frank McMullen