The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop "Green" old trucks?

I was reading an article on line in my local paper (Seattle Times)about how the EPA is lowering smog standards. Several of the comments on the article suggested banning all vehicles over 20 or 30 years old from the road....Obviously, thats not gonna happen, but it got me thinking.

Other than keeping up on maintenance, keeping your engine in tune, or replacing the original with a newer drive train, is there anything we can do make our old trucks run cleaner? Lets say just for the sake of argument that they decided to hold older trucks to a more modern emissions standard...Could it be done, and how?

My ideas: Fit a catalytic convertor (not sure it would run right anymore though), electronic ignition, maybe a more modern carb and/or fuel injection.....

Not that I'm going to do any of that unless I had too...I love old machinery for what it is, and its simplicity. But I was just wondering....

You could put your old carcass on the frame of an 'under 20 or 30 year old vehicle.' You would be 'green.'

There are tips and threads on this site to help you do that.

We,over here in Britain,have a fairly easy early vehicle smog test.i.e. a check for visible smoke.
As long as it's not smoking from burning oil/or over-rich fuel,it'll pass.
Most restorers have to concede to fitting hardened valve seats to enable them to run unleaded fuel,because we simply cannot get leaded gas any more.

I had a 1975 Ca. spec Porsche 914 with the full compliment of emmissions equipment.i.e Convertor,fuel and air injection and the smog tester here couldn't believe an engine could run with such low outputs.

Even then I didn't actually have to have the test,it was more out of curiosity.
I'm with you though, keep it well serviced and tuned and you shouldn't be doing any more harm.

Here the average family car does approx 12,000+ miles a year.
How many of us do that type of distance in our old trucks? (Not many I'll bet.)
I'll be lucky to do 3000 miles a year
We probably do less harm to the environment than most.

Believe it or not, the old trucks are "greener" than you might think. The low compression ratios of the older inlines burn cooler than the higher compression ratios of more modern vehicles. As a result of burning cooler, the engines create fewer nitrogen compounds in the exhaust. The nitrogen compounds are primarily responsible for smog. Now I am not saying that a 1953 chevy with a 216 is greener than a modern volkswagon, but it probably puts far fewer smog forming particles in the air than a H2 Hummer.

There is in fact a little bit of a trade off here. Higher compression ratios give more power and better fuel economy. They also form more smog emmissions, which is corrected by the use of catylitic converters.

That is very interesting, I didn't know that.

There is also the argument that the "environmental cost" of running an older vehicle is actually less than the cost in energy and resources to make a new one....

"You could put your old carcass on the frame of an 'under 20 or 30 year old vehicle.' You would be 'green.'"

That would definitely work, but for me it would defeat the purpose of having an old rig to begin with...Heck, I don't even like disc brakes or digital gauges in an old truck! Must be a glutton for punishment though, because I absolutely HATE servicing drum brakes....

Any changes that require new parts would decrease your "greenness".

As stated above, most modernizations are not necessarily "greener".

However, a simple conversion to natural gas (if that is possible) might be considered to be "greener".

If you are leaking oil, replace gaskets/seals; but, first consider the old saying about these trucks, "if they are not leaking a little, they are out of fluid". If the engine is burning oil, then consider rebuilding the block/head. The consensus seems to be that hardened valve-seats serve no purpose on 216/235/261 engines - high-compression engines might benefit from hardened valve seats.

Look at it this way, you are not recycling, you are not re-using, you are using it longer (which is very green in the case of this vehicle).

Catalytic converters change Carbon Monoxide and Oxides of Nitrogen into water vapor and CO2. Neither one is the least bit harmful, but now Spotted Owl Gore and the rest of the pseudo-scientists will give you 40 lashes with a wet noodle for producing any CO2 at all! Shame on all you for breathing!

Jerry

Jerry,
What happens to the nitrogen in the "oxides of nitrogen"? There's no nitrogen in water vapor or CO2.

Since air is about 70% nitrogen, it's supposed to pass through the engine without reacting at all. If combustion temps get above a certain point, the oxygen left over from a lean mixture after all the fuel burns starts reacting with Nitrogen to form Nitrous Oxide, Nitric Oxide, and other nasty smog-producing nitrogen compounds. The front section of a dual-bed catalytic converter is a "reducing catalyst" that breaks down the NOX compounds and separates the Oxygen from the Nitrogen. The N2 goes on through the oxidixing section (back half of the converter) without reacting with anything. The Oxygen released by the reducing catalysy then combines with the Carbon Monoxide (CO) to form CO2. Sometimes it's necessary to add a little oxygen via air injection to the center of the converter to complete the CO/CO2 conversion in the rear of the catalytic converter. The resulting exhaust gas is nearly stoichiometric, which is a fancy word for being nothing but CO2 and water vapor. Exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) is used to displace a little oxygen in the intake charge, reducing combustion temperatures and minimizing the formation of NOX in the first place.
Jerry

CO2 is somewhat of an "annoying" product which is used by both sides in such a discussion: yes, it is part of nature's cycle (for instance trees use it), but in the wrong quantities, it is dangerous to life (try breathing it!). So it does make sense to to control how much there is an the atmosphere, by controlling how much humans produce.
To answer the original question, one way that could work (depending on local laws) would be to install a complete modern drivetrain in your truck: a popular exemple could be the LS series of engines, many parts/harnesses are available for this swap in many old vehicles.

OK, I just looked it up- - - - - -

A sample of air contains 78.08% nitrogen, 20.94% oxygen, .05% carbon dioxide, and .93% argon, by volume.

1/2 of 1 percent of the air we breathe is CO2! The volcano that's currently erupting in the Phillipines is spewing thousands of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere every hour, plus untold amounts of sulfur dioxide and other gases that really are toxic, and we humans have the unmitigated arrogance to believe we can have some sort of influence on the atmosphere with our puny efforts to change things?

Pass the Kool-Aid, Jim Jones! I need another cyanide fix!

Jerry

volcanos are temporary "noise" in climate and the planet takes care of it in a short time, increasing human use of fossil fuels is an artifical addition to the natural system causing a long term imbalance .... maybe try looking a little deeper into the science and see where the "arrogance" lies, there's a lot more to the carbon cycle than meets your eye

Bill

Aside from all the exhaust emissions you can simply state that your old truck are greener because they are "recycled". 70% of a vehicles life-time pollution comes from the mining for the steel, electricity to run the plants, the VOC's from the plastic manufacturing,the computers, the shipping of materials, the list goes on and on. A Prius actually pollutes more than our old trucks when you consider the environmental footprint and divide it by years on the road. Our trucks have been on the road for 60+ years, a new Prius may last 20. I would bet that if all things considered, our old trucks would win hands down.

Due to their longevity, our old trucks are green.