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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 169
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Wrench Fetcher
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 169

Holding panels together during butt welding can be a challenge. Special so called butt weld clamps are on the market to cure this problem. But they create problems, a HUGE GAP. Often times the gap they create is almost as big as the metal's thickness, not good. A proper butt weld should little no gap, the most gap you should have is the thickness of the filler material, MIG wire is .023.

One can use cleco clamps to hold a sheet metal patch together when butt welding and here is how you do it. The result is a no to very little gap joint, and no special high dollar clamps that create more work.

I use 3/32 clecos, the smallest size they make I have found.
Here is what the cleco and cleco pliers look like for those who dont know.

[IMG]http://inlinethumb41.webshots.com/26856/2895715800102553149S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG]



A great tool to have, its a Roper Whitney hand punch. It can punch various size holes in metal perfect for plug welding. I will use it to make plugs, more on that later.

[IMG]http://inlinethumb52.webshots.com/17523/2420560120102553149S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG]



If you have an air flanger and hole puncher it too works. I found mine doesnt punch to well in 18ga metal and other reasons I dont prefer using this tool to punch my plugs.

[IMG]http://inlinethumb33.webshots.com/45984/2829665040102553149S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG]



Holes left after using the Roper Whitney punch.

[IMG]http://inlinethumb01.webshots.com/44736/2229352750102553149S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG]


These are what am after. Once you punch a hole you get a small metal plug, these plugs are used with the cleco to hold the panels together. I will punch several plugs.

[IMG]http://inlinethumb34.webshots.com/43361/2600924650102553149S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG]


Currently working on custom metal and How to videos.

1949 and 1972 chevy trucks
70 chevelle SS455
Pictures of my work and projects
http://community.webshots.com/user/sevt_chevelle
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 169
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Wrench Fetcher
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Reason number one why I prefer the Roper Whitney over the air punch. The design of the Roper creates a self centering mark in the plug which allows me to drill a perfectly centered hole in the plug. The picture shows the nice self centering mark.

[IMG]http://inlinethumb45.webshots.com/44524/2327995880102553149S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG]

Its hard to see but on the backside of the plug a small titty is formed from the self centering mark. Plug with the titty on the left and flat plug on the right.

[IMG]http://inlinethumb21.webshots.com/44180/2056459910102553149S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG]


To flatten the plug just use a hammer and dolly, one quick hit will do.

[IMG]http://inlinethumb02.webshots.com/25793/2486724270102553149S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG]


Once the plugs are hammered flat, I lightly clamp them in the vise grip and use a cordless drill to drill the hole. Since the clecos are 3/32 in size you want to use a drill bit around that size, dont go bigger then 3/32, I believe I used three sizes smaller then 3/32.

[IMG]http://inlinethumb54.webshots.com/25717/2228463580102553149S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG]


Not the greatest picture, but the plugs on the left are done with the Roper Whitney hand punch. The ones on the right are from the air tool. The holes on the left are all directly in the center, the ones to the right are off center. I just like the plugs to be holding an equal amount on each side versus being off center.

[IMG]http://inlinethumb54.webshots.com/20149/2524539040102553149S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG]


Better shot of off center holes, try to avoid off center holes.

[IMG]http://inlinethumb15.webshots.com/43278/2319677040102553149S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG]


Here is the reason behind making these metal plugs. Picture of the plug installed on the cleco. Now we have a cleco with the clamping force to hold a butt joint.

[IMG]http://inlinethumb40.webshots.com/43943/2045689980102553149S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG]


Cleco is released and the plug is tight against the bottom of the cleco. If the hole you drilled is to big the plug can move around and pull through so proper sizing is important.

[IMG]http://inlinethumb52.webshots.com/3571/2612633090102553149S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG]
My test panel, notice the tight no gap joint perfect for butt welding sheet metal.

[IMG]http://inlinethumb20.webshots.com/26003/2541504890102553149S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG]


Another view of the joint. One thing I like to do when aligning panels and I have the fit where I want it is to make some simple alignment marks across the two panels. The marks will help me see if the panel has shifted once I put the panels together for welding.

[IMG]http://inlinethumb62.webshots.com/20477/2092904180102553149S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG]


Installing the clecos to hold the panels. Not what you want to do but this shows the gap created. There is a trick to overcome this.

[IMG]http://inlinethumb60.webshots.com/12795/2073214770102553149S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG]

Backside of joint. Now you can see how the plugs come into play. Once again this NOT the desired affect meaning the huge gap.

[IMG]http://inlinethumb60.webshots.com/45499/2919278900102553149S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG]

With the panels clamped back together the trick to achieving a nice no gap joint is..... Drill a 1/8 hole in the center of the joint. You want a slightly bigger hole then the 3/32 stem on the cleco and 1/8 works perfect. Plus 1/8 holes are easy to weld shut after wards.

[IMG]http://inlinethumb21.webshots.com/45652/2087457430102553149S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG]

When drilling the holes make sure you clamp the panels together. Use long reach vise grips like what is shown to hold them tight.
You can also use a rat tail file if the panels are separated, just make sure you mark the location on both panels for the filing.

[IMG]http://inlinethumb57.webshots.com/17720/2537380110102553149S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG]

More holes drilled, nothing special, just keep moving the clamp down as you drill.

[IMG]http://inlinethumb60.webshots.com/43899/2715655510102553149S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG]

Once the holes are done you clamp them together. Clecos are installed and the result is a nice tight joint just like before.

[IMG]http://inlinethumb35.webshots.com/43362/2293301120102553149S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG]

Close up of the gap and a 1/8 hole. That gap will be a breeze to weld and so will the 1/8 hole. Much easier the the .040 gap left behind by those high dollar special clamps.

[IMG]http://inlinethumb24.webshots.com/43479/2746935630102553149S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG]

Another view

[IMG]http://inlinethumb16.webshots.com/45135/2358540190102553149S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG]



The two panels are sitting level and flush just like they should be.

[IMG]http://inlinethumb63.webshots.com/43198/2227878140102553149S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG]

Back side of the joint showing the plugs holding the panels tight.

[IMG]http://inlinethumb55.webshots.com/27958/2545630340102553149S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG]

They hold tight. Panels held with clecos and plugs are solid and with little movement. The only movement you get is from the cleco moving around in the 1/8 hole which sometimes you want to get that perfect alignment.

[IMG]http://inlinethumb40.webshots.com/43239/2109215210102553149S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG]

That's how you clamp a butt joint together with clecos. Sure it takes so time making the plugs but once you make them you can re-use them again and again. Plus you dont need to spend 20 plus dollars on four special clamps that create work. I bought my pliers and two bags of cleco clamps for about 10 bucks from an aircraft surplus store...Eric


Currently working on custom metal and How to videos.

1949 and 1972 chevy trucks
70 chevelle SS455
Pictures of my work and projects
http://community.webshots.com/user/sevt_chevelle
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 98
6
Wrench Fetcher
Wrench Fetcher
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Thanks for that informative article! i will be self teaching myself mig welding soon ,and the clecos look way better than the other type

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Shop Shark
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This is good stuff. I hope Peg can transfer it to the Tech Tips pages so it's not lost.


Drew
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'Bolter
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Thanks!!!
Chris

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Shop Shark
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That's exactly the way I did mine!


Woody
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'Bolter
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THANK YOU for this posting. AWESOME Dude! It took some time to put this together for us on this site...but (pun not intended) I will use this approach and you answered a bunch of questions I have had. thanks again. tom


1946 GMC Project
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'Bolter
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Thanks for posting this. This is some valuable information.


1963 Chevy C20 Longbed Stepside
1978 Chevy K30 Custom Deluxe
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A
Moderated
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I have just tried to view the the pictures in this post, but I keep getting a message the server can't be found. Are the pictures and comments available anywhere else. I read the article sometime ago, and now that I am ready to start butt welding some patch panels I'd like to review the information.

Thanks!
Al Fudge

Joined: Feb 2007
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Shop Shark
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Posts: 434
I also could not view the pics. Is there at Tech article planned?


R-Bo

1959 Apache 1/2 ton Big Window, Short bed Fleetside (under reconstruction)
1966 GMC 305V6 in the family
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Gas Pumper
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Yeah, I too am interested but all I get is a DNS error.


Deve

1950 Chevy 3100 Deluxe Cab
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'Bolter
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I can't open any of the pictures either. I can't imagine how he is using Clecos with butt welding. We use Clecos all the time to hold posts to panels that we rivet with buck rivets, but I can't imagine how one would use them to hold two pieces of sheet metal together with butt welding. I can feature using them to hold overlapping flanges and then welding the holes shut, but I guess my little brain just isn't imaginative enough to feature Clecos in butt welding.

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Cruising in the Passing Lane
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youse guys can't open the pics because they were posted over 4 years ago and that webshots no longer exists, there'll be lotsa that in posts older than about 6 months

Bill


Moved over to the Passing Lane

"When we tug a single thing in nature, we find it attached to the rest of the world" ~ John Muir
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'Bolter
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What I remember from Sevtchevelle was he was very talented, had videos for sale, and many Youtube videos. I'd rank him up there with the likes of MP&C and MartinSR. Just for the record
Dan

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Moderated
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Can you re-post the pictures or provide a link to them? Thanks, awesome article.

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 11,130
Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums
Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 11,130
Unfortunately sevt_chevelle hasn’t been around since 2015. You could try and contact him via the email in his profile.


Kevin
1951 Chevy 3100 work truck
Follow this saga in Project Journal
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Insomniac
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Gord 🇨🇦
----
1954 1/2 ton 235 4 speed
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Bolter
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Go to the link Gord provides and scroll down. You will find posts from 2018 from sevt with photos showing how he does it. Thanks Gord!


Martin
'62 Chevy C-10 Stepside Shortbed (Restomod in progress)
'47 Chevy 3100 5 Window (long term project)
‘65 Chevy Biscayne (Emily)
‘39 Dodge Business Coupe (Clarence)
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Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums
Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums
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Posts: 11,130
Thanks Gord thumbs_up

That's what I was envisioning from his description. Much handier than the butt weld clamps from Eastwood or HF. I keep dropping the little crossbar on those and have to chase them down while getting a panel clamped in place.


Kevin
1951 Chevy 3100 work truck
Follow this saga in Project Journal
Photos
1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car)
Busting rust since the mid-60's
If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.

Moderated by  klhansen 

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