The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop Sanding dust, how bad is it?

I use either a thick drywall dust mask or a full on NIOSH mask when sanding my truck. Do you guys think the drywall dust mask enough? How toxic is the dust from epoxy primer, 2k primer, and filler?
It got me thinking because when doing heavy sanding it gets everywhere. Even when I pull the truck out halfway. My wife or kids will open the garage door to tell me something and I can guarantee that dust gets sucked into the house.
I blow out the garage after every sanding session, and wash it out once a month, but I am worried.

Do we have chemist in the house?

No dust is good dust, Ask a bodyman/painter. Once the materials dry and the vapors have evaporated it won't kill you. Long term exposure to automotive products can cause health problems, so wear the recommended air filter, chemical gloves, and eye protection. Do what you can to keep the dust out of the house. Can't be to safe.

The first thing to do if you are worried about dust is do NOT use air gun. All you do is spread it around for cleanup later.

Dust from sanded paint containing lead cadmium or chromates are probably the worst especially if you have young kids. If you are concerned about them GET RID of air gun. Paper type masks are about a waste of time and money if you want filtering. Best is air fed hood then a full face respirater then half face with the radionuclide labeling.
Dan Bentler

Luckily I sent out most of the body panels out for sandblasting, so I'm not too worried about the original paint. Its the epoxy, 2k, and filler. Yeah, the paper masks are worthless, I use those really thick drywall masks or my paint mask. I just ordered a fresh air system, I figure the $320 was worth it for health reasons. Though I think I should have bought it two years ago...

How many of you use a fresh air system when sanding?

I guess I'll just let the dust settle and sweep or spray the garage down with a hose. Or now that it is cool enough in FL, I'll pull the truck all the way out into the driveway for sanding, my neighbors will love me.

I wear an old organic vapor respirator when dry sanding. I wear no mask when wetsanding, and a brand new organic vapor respirator that is stored in the freezer in a plastic bag when spraying.

The vapors in modern paints are really nasty, but the solids in them are plastic/oil based. They can't be too good for the lungs. Some fillers also have fiberglass, which is nasty stuff.

I wipe down vehicle surfaces and hose out the garage periodically to remove dust. once in awhile, I blow off my shelves (with a mask).

I have a fresh air system that is so annoying that I don't use it (even when spraying). Mainly dragging the extra hose that supplies the fresh air is annoying. It also gets hot, so I would run a piece of the hose wrapped in a coil through a bucket of water to keep the air cool. And lastly, it is loud - both on my face (with a hood) and outside where it is doing the sucking - sounds like a vacume cleaner.

I've decided for myself with the minimal ammount of painting that I do that organic vapor respirators are safe enough.

Hey! I finally feel qualified to comment on something!

I'm an Industrial Hygienist and this is right up my alley...my biggest warning is to get the right mask/cartridges for the job. Particulate rated masks may NOT protect against solvent vapors and vice versa. Know what type of mask you are using and its limitations. All organic vapor filters can get overloaded with solvents and become useless. If this happens, you might not smell the solvent but you might still be breathing in a lot of it. My advice, dont hold onto solvent vapor filters for very long.


Quick rundown on respirators:
1)Dustmask/surgical mask...worthless at stopping vapors or dusts (like everyone else already said). Only really good for keeping people around you from getting sneezed on.

2) N95 rated respirator (looks like a dust mask), will filter out 95% of the dust IF FIT-TESTED, but you can expect it to still do a decent job. May also see N99 with filters out 99%+ but doesnt make much of a difference if it's not fitted. (expect about a 10 fold protection)

3) R95 & P95, same as above but is resistant or proof against oil mists

4) N95/P95 with organic vapor filtering charcoal embedded: Same as above but can filter out the solvents. Look for a description that says something like: "for use against nuisance vapors"

4)Half mask and full face respirators. These filter out a wide range of things depending on what cartridge is attached. Make sure you have the correct type. If it's JUST dust then a P100 or a HEPA cartridge is fine. Otherwise you may need to get something different. A good standard choice is a organic vapor/p100 multivapor cartridge. A fit-tested half mask can give a 25 fold protection and a full face a 50 fold protection.

5) Powered Air Purifying Respirator or Supplied air. These are fancy. Depending on the setup you can get between a 25 fold protection up to 10,000 fold protection. PM me if you want specifics.

Marklaken, PM me if you want suggestions on how to use your fresh air system. There's ways of lowering the air temp by 60 degrees.

If anyone has any specifics, PM me and I'll try to help. I'm used to reading alot of MSDS's and I might be able to suggest some things based off of what you are using.

Sorry about the brain dump... hope it helps someone.

-David

I use the half-mask in #4, with the garage doors and windows open.

Don't forget - guys with beards should seal the edges of the mask with vaseline.
I'm not tryin' to be funny - a lot of "stuff" can get past unsealed edges.

Just my 2 cents.

Good stuff David, thanks. But I am still wondering what is actually in the dust? Is it talc? Any lead or other carcinogenic material? I know when your spraying this stuff it is seriously toxic, just wondering about the left over dust.

Without knowing the exact product that you are applying it is difficult to say how nasty it is. It could be toxic when you spray it because of the solvents that carry the primer/paint, or it could be toxic from a chemical that's in the primer/paint-examples of this could be heavy metals or isocyanates.

As far as the dust goes...alot of primers/paints lose their toxicity after their solvents off-gas and the product cures. A big problem with sanding can be if there are heavy metals in whatever you are sanding. If you're worried about lead you can go to Home Depot and get a lead test kit of a few bucks. They are about the size of a cigerette and are easy to use. I think they might also detect some of the other heavy metals.

I'd be surprised if there were any heavy metals in the epoxies that you have but you never know. I'd suggest contacting the manufacture and asking to see the material data safety sheets (MSDSs)for the different products. Let me know if you need any help tracking that stuff down or interpreting what they mean.

Alot of the previous suggestions are really good. Avoid kicking up the dust. If you use a shop vac, try to use one with a HEPA filter - these are really good at collecting the dust without blowing it out the other end. Without the HEPA rating the vacuum might just put smaller pieces of dust back into the air.

Try to avoid sweeping and blowing things off with compressed air. Also, alot of painters i know actually change clothes in the garage because they dont want to carry things into the house. I'm thinking this might be overkill if you're just doing it as a hobby, if it's your daily job then we might want to talk a bit more.

Sorry if I'm rambling...prolly more info than you want

Am also industrial hygienist. The only way to know what is in a paint being sanded is to know what the paint was and then look at MSDS - OR - take a chip to a lab and have it analyzed.

The most common thickener was titanium dioxide - I do not recall talc ever used in any paint.

It is safest to assume that any body paint applied before 1985 and maybe even 1990 was either lead based and maybe with a chromate.



Here in marina vacuum pickup is mandatory on sanding works well and saves on cleanup
Dan Bentler

Guess I should have mentioned the products! I use Nason Ful-Poxy, Nason 2k Primer, and Evercoat Z-Grip filler. I'll try track down the data sheets. And no your not rambling, this is stuff I should have looked into a long time ago. Any info is good.

If you are coughing after the sanding session, you definitely lacked protection. OPD is a pretty awful condition to live with.

black boogers are no good, either. And if you have a headache the same day or the next day, you will know you shoulda wore some lung/eye/skin protection. I have gotten headaches from applying/sanding body filler - but maybe I use too much

I only use the fresh air system when sandblasting or welding galvanized steel (which I almost never do).

I mainly use these: 3M 07192 respirator

I found the MSDS for the Evercoat Z-grip filler. When it's still wet to looks like the nastiest stuff it has is styrene (15%-20% of the product) and crystalline sillica (0%-1%). One good thing about styrene is that you smell it way before it's a big hazard, so it might smell like it's going to kill you but it might not be that bad. That said I'd still wear a respirator.

It looks like there isn't a ton of silica in the product but depending on what your doing with it, you should still prolly wear a particulate filtering mask.

I found the MSDS at:http://www.evercoat.com/imgs/msds/100282%20Z-Grip%2010-01-08.pdf

You might want to check that it's the same product

I couldnt find the MSDS's for the Nason products and it looks like you might need to call DuPont to get them

Dan (the other IH) do you agree?

Hope this helps
-David

David,
Thanks for all your help, it seems that my 3M respirator is doing the job. No black boogers! But I went camping with my daughter in the middle of Florida this weekend, and talk about sand and black boogers! I should have been wearing a 3M respirator out there. Ha, ha.

Anyway, thanks again for all the info, I hope this thread reminds us all to be careful with our hobby.

Michael

I use a half mask thats properly fitted for just about any job that kicks up large amounts of dust. I am Heavy Duty mechanic and I can't recall the exact filter number I use but it has a dust filter and charcoal and I will never again use a r95 disposable. If you use a half mask or a full mask then invest in a good cleaning product for your mask as normal breathing in it will allow mildew to grow in it making you sick next time you use it. I store mine in a freezer bag and I change the cartridges as soon as it gets harder to breath in it.

You got a lot of great and professional advice for free!
I work for the Fed Gov't and we go those hygiene guys around all the time.
God made those lungs for air; not a bunch of crap floating around in the air.
Get a RESPIRATOR; if the package does not say "RESPIRATOR" it isn't one.
The filters are done when you taste what you are trying to no breathe or 8 hours. There is no APPROVED long term storage of filters once they are removed from the original packaging. We are required to have our respirator in a food quality zip lock bag whenever it's not on our face. When using your respirator always wipe it out with alcohol or other approved sanitizer prior to putting it on. You'll notice fewer colds.
Yes it's expensive so plan your sanding and painting so as to use your filter time wisely. Do all your filler work on as many panels as possible, THEN sand everything; then do any additional filling required on all the work, then sand again.

Huh I just thought that went they told you to buy a new filter set it was just to get your sales? Well since I go through a filter set a week I never keep mine to long.