The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts Diesel Conversion project -- 1st pics

With the monsoon weekend here in Maryland, I was able to slip into the shop and actually get down to business starting work on the AD diesel project truck.

As many of you know, Grigg is helping me clone his diesel truck (sort of ... some slight differences). I am starting with the AD frame I got from Dan Trey. It was pretty tired, and several of the frame cross members had to come out. A couple of the spring perches still need to be removed, but just getting the frame into the shop and the original 2-speed rear removed and the Dana 80 mocked up to the frame to check clearances, etc was a major first step.

I already have the Detroit 4-53 Turbo and the Road Ranger RT-610. The Dana 80 is sitting under the frame as of 4 hours ago.

Ya gotta start somewhere. And here are the starting photos I have no clue when this will get done, but hopefully, I will be driving it (towing the '49 1-ton) to Kansas City one of these years.

Anyway -- I thought you all might like to see the "keel laying" of this new project.

Hope everyone had a safe, happy and productive weekend.

John

Hy John Milliman, thanks very much for the pic's

John,

Looks great! Starting is the hardest part. With all the help available from the ODSS, that thing will be up and running in no time. Grigg can be Chip Foose (brains) and the rest of us can do the grunt work. I'll help, as long as no drill presses are used in the process!

Take care, George

John,
I'll second what Napco Man said. I will gladly help with this most worthy project. My only problem is I live in Utah so.... well, I will tell you what, you find it in the budget for me to come out and I will proudly work my butt off helping you out.

This is exciting! You are going to have a stable full of A D trucks!

Don't make me come over there and FIX IT!

Dave ... You KNOW you will be fixing it before too long

Larry -- I'm just trying to catch up to Scott Ward

38 tow -- thanks -- the ticket is on the way

George ... Grab ahold of yerself, Marine! I have a drill press sitting right here with your name on it. When you can face the drill press ... In fact, I am going to lock you in the shop with it. When the screaming stops, I will open the door and one of you will come out... Tough love, man. You will get through this.

3B -- Just what has Dave been telling you about his visit???


John

Nice photos. You gotta start somewhere. Keep the photos coming.

Sounds like we're on the same schedule then! Although I may substitute a '52 1-ton to ride the trailer.

Here's a picture of John's transmission, the one on the right
And his engine in the "prototype"

Grigg

Let the FUN begin!

It's always fun starting a new project, the trick is finishing them

Let me know if you need help!

Mike B

Here I was hoping for a ISB with a 6-speed trans from a late-model Dodge or Sterling

Good luck with that! You know I'm always lookin'!
Scott

Good Job man!! Hope you have a blast with it!!

Oh, Scott, I'm gonna be putting a 12 valve in my 47 with a late-model six speed manual from a dodge.. So not quite the ISB setup, but still a Cummins!

Nothing wrong with a 12V. are you keeping it stock, or are you bumping the fueling?

Wellllllllllllllll......... I'm gonna be runnin' in the neighborhood of about 500hp/1000lb-ft or so......

Hey, I was wondering. Does that tranny have any syncro gears or do you shift it without the clutch. Plus I was wondering what were the factors that made you choose that motor.
I had heard that its a 2 cycle, pretty noisy, and a little hard to control emissions along with weighing in over a 1000 lbs.
I only know a little about diesels and my first thought for a conversion would have been a cummins out of a dodge.
I'm not knockin your choice, just wondering what makes it a desirable one.

Dan

The Roadranger transmissions are not synchronized. Only the air operated range shift is synchronized.
The manual advises you to use the clutch for every shift, although most often people shift them without using the clutch.

Yes, the 4-53T weighs approximately 1,200 lb, and yes they can make some noise but with a muffler can be reasonably quiet. Not sure about "a little hard to control emissions" if tuned properly they are as clean or cleaner than other engines of the same age.

A 6BT is longer than a 4-53, and while a great engine probably takes a fair amount more work to install in an AD truck. I've seen pictures of a few 6BT's in AD trucks, but haven't seen a clean and professional looking one yet. So not having tried a 6BT myself that leads me to believe it's not so easy.

Grigg

Dan,

For whatever it may be worth (nothing, probably...) In addition to what Grigg said (he's my coach and advisor on this project), let me add that "noise" is in the ear of the listener I also like the Road Ranger because it will be a challenge to learn how to shift it correctly and will most likely require a lot of practice. And between it and the Detroit, should give me a lot of capability.

I have the Cummins "Death Rattler" in my Dodge and it is a looooooooooong engine that would take a lot of fabrication to fit into an AD truck.

But ultimately, it came down to working with what was feasible and available. I do not possess the skills or knowledge to attempt this kind of modification on my own and without coaching wouldn't know a 6BT from a 4-53T if they were dropped on me, so when I had access to a freshly rebuilt 4-53T and RT610 ... it sort of all fell into place.

Is the Detroit better than the Cummins? Are Fords better than Chevies?? Is Dale Junior a better human being than Rusty Wallace??? Is Pepsi better than Coke????? We could be here all week arguing Detroit vs Cummins, and both camps have their strident advocates. You can make anything work if you have enough skill, time and resources. It comes down to preferences and resources for me. And the more gears the better.

There you have it.

By the way, I have a brother in law who calls me a pansy because I used the clutch when I drove his Peterbilt...

Regards,
John

This may help explain the roadranger detroit combo choice.



Noise? I'm not sure what it is you all are referring to. All I hear is sweet music.



Its the reason I have a detroit in my garage......

Detroit hands down!!!

Cummins Power baby!!

hands down, the reason I'm a fan of the B series is its the only 160 hp motor I know that can support 500hp on stock internals with no mods..... (well, studs in the head, but 500 hp can be done without studs, just it's edgy.......)

I for one plan to change the opinion that a 6BT can't be done with a good-looking install.

But, to each their own! I'll be the first to admit that grigg's detroit is one sweet truck!

Hi again, I guess I'll have to be careful when I mention brand names. I wasn't trying to raise a debate on who's better, I mentioned Cummins because I've seen it in a Dodge. I've never even seen a 4-53T or know where they were used so I wouldn't know what hood to lift to find one.
I was just wondering about the noise and by that I mean from the motor itself not what you hear out the tail pipe.
Out the tail pipe is sweet,but the drown of a diesel like my 7.3 up front gets a little old after a few hundred miles.

No synchros huh, so how do you get first gear, wait for the gears to stop spinning. I've never driven a non-synchro trans although I do shift without clutch just for the fun of it.
As you can see I'm not to bright when it comes to diesels, Ive got one in my truck which I've had a few years but my gearhead knowledge is in plastic cars because I've wrenched them for decades.
Thanks for the help in understanding what your doing with this swap, I find it interesting.
I wanted to watch what Grigg was doing but back when he started I was on dial up and it would take half a day to look at his pics. Now I'm on satelite so I can see pics now.
Dan

Yes, and to help you'll have either a clutch brake that engages when clutch is completely depressed, or a countershaft brake that is engaged with an air button on the shifter.
Both of them stop the transmission from spinning when you're at a stop and ready to slip it in gear again and take off. Without one or the other it can take quite a long time to get it in gear if the oil is warm and it's spinning good.

Grigg

Billy -- Nice vids (speaking of *my* 4-53T ... Can't wait to be driving "our" GMC with that engine)

Dan -- This is nothing Hmmmm, look who's on this thread .... Watch what happens when I do this ...

Hey! REAL tractors are RED!!

hehehehe!
John

Yep Farmall H's ,M's ,Supers and Cub's. International before Case.

Oh sure, jump on the bandwagon there, putt putt boy!

The one parked in my yard is GREEN. Wish it belonged to me...

Real Tractors are the ones that work for ya, and I have yet to see where that depends on the color. It's more the year and the model as I have Orange, Red, Green, and Grey. Oh, and one Blue,although I don't like it much.

Dan

REAL tractors are yellow!!
Scott

I can take it no more that is just cool where can I find one of these motors and where did you get the trans behind it? I want to build A coe with one of these motors. I have looked for one all day and can not find one anywhere. What kind of vehicle do I need to look for to find one?
Thanks
Brad

The most common (by far) truck that had a 4-53T from the factory was a GMC 6500 or thereabouts and the Chevy equivalents from 1977-1979. And not all had the diesel.
here's an example

You'll also find 4-53T's in some skiders and numerous other pieces of equipment.
You'll turn up a lot of 4-53 engines before you find the 4-53T (with turbo).

Small Roadranger 610 and 6610 transmissions are out there too, just got to start looking, probably take a while to find one, and a while longer to find one at a reasonable price.

Grigg

I saw that but I was just wondering what else would have one in it. I knew about the chevys but not the skidders. Also what would be a good truck to find road ranger of this size in? I know it has to be a smaller truck otherwise it wouldn't fit behind the engine. Thanks for the help.
Thanks
Brad

Have no idea, it's hit and miss as they could be ordered in lots of trucks that size, so there is no one truck that will always have one..

Look behind big ford gas V8's, cat 3208, IH DT466, and DD 6V53 engines among others.

Learn about them here:
http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6668

Those videos of the cabless 48 just bring a smile and lighten my day every time.

I actually found a Roadranger 613 today but for what he wants for it I can find a whole truck with other parts left. I have a wrecker service so I will just keep a look out for trucks while driving. I also have a salvage yard so I can sell whats left of the parts truck. Thanks for the help on the trans.
Thanks
Brad

Oh yeah, lets just toss this cherry bomb into the 0311 barracks and see what happens!
And I agree yellow is the color of choice (Minnie Moline 1355)and a red 'n gray, and a blue.

Grigg, how does the Roadranger compare to the NV 5600 in overall size?

The Roadranger 10 speed weighs about 425 lb installed and ready to go, the book list 357 lb but that's without oil and some parts.
I think an NV4500 is in the 200 lb range?
The Roadranger being a twin counter shaft transmission is wider as well.

Grigg

Here are some sources for 600 series Fullers

http://www.plunkstruck.com/

http://www.plunks2.com/

http://www.geigertruck.com/

http://www.tnttruck.com/index.php?action=page_display&PageID=5

http://www.timjordanstruck.com/

I have done business with all of these salvage dealers. They are reputable and are experienced in shipping

Thanks Grigg.

Thanks I actuaaly checked the first two and they don't have either the motor or the trans. Yellow plunks is 25 miles from me and I went and looked yesterday to see if they had them.
Thanks
Brad