The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay 6V voltage regulator adjustment to 8V?

I have a good practically new 8 volt battery and an old truck that I am tryin to get started and no money.

Many years ago I saw this guy Hook up some sort of meter somewhere on the voltage regulator and start messin around with the inside of the regulator to get the regulator to handle/charge an 8 volt battery.

Anybody know what I'm talkin about/done this and able to post here how it's done?


TIA and Adios,Kip

the shop manual details adjusting the reg, just have to set the kick in/out points up 2 volts - I think folks here generally feel it's not a good idea to run the gen/reg at 8V when it's designed for 6 .... you could always use the 8V battery with the system as-is and put the batt on a charger once in a while - assuming you're just working on the truck, not aiming to use it regular

Bill

Thanks Squeeze! I only have 1 multimeter and from what I'm readin I will need two? Or can I do each test seperatly. Can I just mess with the voltage and not the Amps ("air gap")?

Adios, Kip

I'd say you can do them seperately, but don't hold it to me [sez bullfoot], I think the first is the cut out point [goes no higher] and the 2nd is the cut in point [opens when current flow falls] - I think the air gap should be OK if the system is working about right at 6V .... I don't think you can hurt anything if you don't go too far, and reset it if you put a 6V batt in

Bill

The cutout relay will have to be adjusted first. Look in the manual and see where it is at 6V and then figure out how much you want to move it. The next adjustment would be the voltage regulator contacts. On six volts it runs somewhere around 7.2 V under certain conditions. You would need to be above 8V for sure. When the voltage is adjusted properly, it should charge a noticeable amounts for a few minutes and then settle down to a very small reading on the charge side. This is with the motor turning well above idle. You shouldn't have to touch the current setting.

Thanks guys I'm gonna study this a little better.

Adios, Kip

I've done this adjustment, it works as Truckernix says. You'll want to set the voltage a bit over 9 volts. That said, expect to go through light bulbs a little faster. I've had no other problems with my 8 volt battery, but it is time for a new one, and I'll be screwing the cutout relay back to 7.2 soon!

Karl

Hey Fred, I just noticed, what happened to Bolton, did you move???
DG

OrganBuilder So the Only adjustment I need to do is the One Cut Out Voltage adjustment?

And can you tell me how you did it, what you hooked up and to where. I know Squeeze put a link to the shop manual but another perspective would be very helpful.

Adios, Kip

It's a while ago I did it, and I am about a thousand miles away from my dear old bolt. Tiny actually led me through it about three years ago. Here is from memory: The voltage cutout is the first of three units inside the regulator, the one nearest the fender on the outside. You'll need the motor running at a fast idle, so the gen is kicking out enough voltage, then you use your voltmeter with the neg on ground and the pos on the gen terminal on the regulator. I have a newer regulator so I had to adjust it by bending a tong until I got the right voltage. The older model has a screw adjustment. The result will be a little different with the cover on the regulator, something to do with heat inside the unit I seem to have heard - so you will need to use a little trial and error.
Look at the link.
C'mon guys, any number of you know this process better than I do, so if I am off base with my descriptin here give Kip the right info!

Karl

Thanks OrganBuilder!
I'm goin over to the Greasy Spoon and hail down Tiny to come over here.
BTW your English is perfect for a Swedish dude, when I was first readin you I thought you were from Oregon HA!

Adios, Kip

I better ask this too:

Does the regulator need to be insulated from the body of the truck when it's mounted on the fire wall?


Adios, Kip

it should have rubber grommets in the mount holes that the screws go thru - so yes

Bill

Thanks Squeeze I'm seeing that BUT one side has "wings" tacked onto the body of the regulator that the screws go threw. Seems to defeat the purpose of the grommets. Also I have another newer regulator that doesn't have the grommits at all?

I hate electrical, give me a pair of vise grips and the shop manual and I'll do mechanical all day long!


Adios, Kip

Hey Kip, I'm FAR from being an expert but I did find a good site for explaining how to mess with a regulator:

http://www.42fordgpw.com/voltage.html

Hey, Kip, I guess you can read my accent. I left Oregon 15 years ago for a Swedish wife. Haven't forgotten English yet...

Tiny, OrganBuilder is the regulator supposed to be insulated from the body?

Thanks, Kip

Ok well I'm goin out there in the 102 degrees to start monkeying with it. But Hey that's what we do right?
I hope that insulation deal don't screw me over.

Thanks I'll be back, Kip

Kip,

Voltage Regulator Mounting Nut (and screw, to the right)

Tim

The regulator body has to be grounded or it won't work. That is the only way the voltage coils can work.

The 8V battery will create many more problems than it solves. The cutout relay voltage must be set to 8.5 volts, and the voltage regulator adjustment needs to be set to 9.5 volts while the generator is charging against a fully-charged battery. Your points and all the light bulbs in the system will have a dramatically diminished lifespan due the the fact they're exposed to approximately 25% more voltage than they're designed to work with. I grew up aropund a shop where we did top-quality charging system work in the 50's and 60's, and Dad absolutely refused to set up a charging system to accomodate an 8V battery. We did do a LOT of total charging system overhauls after car owners learned the hard way about using the wrong voltage battery! The only proper application for an 8 volt battery is in some antique farm tractors which have an electrical system designed to use that voltage, and virtually no electrical accessories.
Jerry

Isn't a 6v battery like ninety bucks? I hate to say it, but I'm with Jerry on this one.

Among the documents that car in the trunk of my car, was a wiring diagram for doing just this. The reason, slow starting. Amazingly, after a real old timey tune up,she works fine now.

I've never seen or heard of anyone else but me personally using an 8 volt battery in their bolt. I bought my battery out of ignorance of the above-stated criticism, but I have not suffered from the dire predictions that I read over and over on this subject. That said, I believe the wise words of Jerry, and will gladly go back to a 6 volt battery when the 8 volt jolt dies its natural death.

Ok goin back out to work on it. Other problems have araised, fuel system.

Thanks Guys, Kip

IIIIII'm Baaaack....

Ok I got everything cleaned up and put back on the truck. I have to jump the Heck out of the engine to get it started. TWO 12 volt vehicles running to turn the starter and it starts right up. Idles and runs nicely so far, no hickup or nothing.

I'll get back to the Voltage Regulator and Generator in a while BUT...
Why is it so hard to start? I've jumped it with one of those 12 volt vehicles before not running and the 235 started right up.

TIA and Adios, Kip

loose connection? maybe one of the heavy cables [batt to grnd, batt to starter, or jumper cable] has a bunch of the small wires broke off the connector? starter getting tired and drawing too much juice so the coil doesn't get enough? could check that by running a wire right to the coil from one of the 12v's and the other 12v right to the starter

Bill

Hey Thanks Squeeze!
Jumper Cables are good (But will triple check).
"heavy cables [batt to grnd, batt to starter," I think I will hookup 12V+ to Starter Button bolt connection and V- to braided grounding strap. Then if that doesn't work I'll take the starter button off and hit the copper contact on the starter with 12V+. Hopefully tomorrow Am.


Adios, Kip

OK, here goes- - - - - -

First, I firmly believe an 8 volt battery is a solution to a nonexistent problem. The properly set up and maintained 6 volt system is all you'll ever need on an old stovebolt.

If you absolutely must do it, here's how to set up the regulator: You'll never be able to get the cutout relay to close until the voltage regulator is set to at least 9 volts. Once that's done, or at least approximated, the cutout relay can be adjusted to close at 8.5 to 8.75 volts. Drop the idle speed low enough for the cutout relay points to open at slow idle, and attach the voltmeter lead to the Armature terminal on the generator. The voltage will probably be somewhere in the range of 5.5 to 7 volts. Slowly increase the idle speed and watch the cutout points and the voltmeter. As the cutout relay closes, you'll see a slight change in the armature voltage. BTW, an old style analog meter (the one with the needle)will be better for making these settings. A digital meter is just too sensitive. Repeat the speed up/close cycle and adjust the spring tension on the points until the cutout relay is closing at the proper voltage.

Once the cutout is closing correctly, it's time to do the final adjustment on the voltage regulator. It's the unit with the spring-closed points directly behind the "field" connection on the regulator. Don't tinker with the coil with the points held closed, and the heavy wire windings. That's the current regulator, and its setting should be OK with the original setup from the 6 volt battery. Now- - -voltage regulator setting- - - - -Start out with a fully-charged battery. If necessary, use an external charger on it until the specific gravity of the battery acid is 1.265 or higher. This is very important, as voltage set with a partially-charged battery will go higher as the battery charges up, and you'll boil it dry. Set the voltage against the charged battery to 9 volts, and re-check it after the cover is installed on the regulator assembly. The setting will drop slightly as the cover is installed due to a better magnetic field being created around the regulator coils. I've set several hundred regulators with the above procedure, but practically all of them were 6 or 12 volt units. I tried to avoid having anything at all to do with an 8 volt setup, as they're nothing but a royal pain in the butt!
Jerry

Squeeze, I have three sets of jumper cables that look almost new. One set jumps the truck real good, the other two aren't worth a darn come to find out after testing all three Again . Strainge thing the good ones are the exact age and brand as one of the weak ones. Anyway I'm going to torch solder all wire in crimps, and real quick dip the clamp ends in muratic acid.

Ok Now Truckernix, Squeeze and anybody else after ALL this dilima with Voltage Regulator, 8V battery, Generator, Truck running Bad....It's looking like all that stuff was good to begin with!!! It's looking like my problems may have lied in something as EASY as bad neg. battery cable connection. Let me get this all cleaned up and torqued down and I will report back.

Adios, Kip

Ok, well I was tryin to get this electrical starting and charging done good with the extra parts that I had. Anyway it didn't quite work that way. Some of you might not like what I did but after about a half an hour of test runs everything seems to be holding up.

First off, cut all new heavy wire. Then crimped, soldered and cleaned connectors to all wiring to starting and charging system.

Second, rebuilt starter and starter button. Have to have good contact of copper contacts between starter button and starter.

Now here's where you guys are going to have a fit. Third, I installed an 8 volt one wire alternator ($132.00 shipped), didn't buy their mounting bracket, it mouned up good and looks good with a little finessing. We can get into the particulars of that later if any of you want.

Forth, installed New 8 volt battery ($65).

Fifth, hooked up all the wiring. Good contact and checking Everything with a meter as I went along.

Last was the testing which I've only done for about half an hour, but metering the alternator's internal regulator is coming on an off as it should, giving me approx. 9.5 volts when charging the battery.

Let me get some hours on this and I'll report back if anything else araises with this starting and/or charging system.

Thanks Guys and Adios, Kip

You'll have the added advantage of bright headlights, really BRIGHT! Buy a good supply of spares, and don't leave home without at least one replacement headlight. Ditto on tail and brake lights. Running approximately 50% above normal charging voltage is very rough on lights in general, and headlights in particular. Good luck!
Jerry

Bought '36 Chev. PU with the 8 Volt batt; but it will not keep charge. Suspect generator not charging it due to mal-adjust. Will switch to new 6 volt Batt. What is quick way to check if generator is charging. Thanks for wise comments?

welcome to the garage Sonny, a multimeter on the battery would be a start .... and you might find the manuals available here helpful on your project

Bill

Where can I buy a 6 volt battery that fits in the tray? Currently I have a 8 volt battery with the regulator adjusted, I did not do this, the guy I bought it from did and I am having my generator rebuilt right now and I really want to go back to 6volt so I don't ruin any electrical components. I can't seem to find any 6 volt batteries that fit.

Tape measure and drop by your local Napa dealer. Also review the thread 2 below this one for part #s. BTW it’s always better to start your own thread instead of bringing up a 8-9 year old thread that isn’t even about the subject you want to discuss.

This is for a AD truck in the 47-53 range?
In Canada, either the Peavy Mart or Canadian Tire (group 1 size) 6 volt commercial battery is the correct size.
Dimensions: 9 L x 6.8 W x 8.75" H (22.8 x 17.2 x 22 cm)
That should be about 70-80 USD, ($103 CAD after core return).

In the US at O’reilly they usually have it in stock
Super Start Fleet & Heavy Duty Group Size 1 Top Post Battery
Part # 1J Line: SSB
$97 with a $15 core

-s

As was already mentioned, the correct size is Group 1. The NAPA 6V Commercial battery, PN 7244, is a rebranded DEKA battery, made by East Penn Manufacturing (same as their PN 901MF). I have the NAPA-branded battery in my '53 and it has given good service for the past 2 years (so far!).

When I saw the brass eyelet inside the 3 grommets on my VR I assumed the eyelets were for electrical grounding and the rubber is for vibration isolation. I have a 55.1 and my grommets are cracked and dry-rotted. Having no luck just finding these grommets with eyelets. Any help would be greatly appreciated

Measure the size of the grommets and do an Ebay search- - - - -they're available by the thousands, either as individual sizes or boxed kits with assorted sizes. Always run a dedicated ground wire from the regulator base to the generator housing. DO NOT rely on brass inserts or body sheet metal for a ground. I've fixed dozens of charging system problems by simply providing the generator and regulator with a reliable ground reference.
Jerry