The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop mo questions, mo questions, mo questions

for my '50 3100's camshaft - '61 235 that's been bored over with .060 pistons, and currently .010 over on everything else. i'll be running dual single carbs, headers, a 700r4, flat tappets/hydraulics, a 3.90 rear, and 'standard' tires - what would be a good street cam with maybe a tad of hop to it? but, i'm not looking to spend $500 for a kit, but the $200 zone is ok

The setup you describe is much like mine. I have a 55 235 bored .030 over with dual single carbs, headers, a 5 speed (T-5), solid lifters, a 3.73 limited slip rear and standard tires. My cam is a .245 Howards, and the engine idles fine, has a ton of power and torque, and runs like a scalded dog.

Call Patrick and talk to him. He'll take good care of you, won't steer you wrong and won't sell you more cam than you need.

Patrick's Antiques

i looked at patrick's, but their emphasis on NO hydraulic cams meeting their satisfaction/they don't offer them, so i didn't bother to call

but i like what you're describing about your engine. maybe i'll drop my hydraulic wishes

There's a reason Patrick won't sell hydraulic cams for those engines. He knows what he's doing. Yes, solid lifters require maintenance, but they're the right lifters for those engines. Even if your engine is modified to a full pressure oiler (as mine is), hydraulics won't get the oil they need in an engine that was never designed for the oil flow that hydraulic lifters need.

hydraulics won't get the oil they need

Not sure what you mean. The late engines are drilled for hydraulic lifters, and have their own oil supply.

That was what I was thinking. Could be to prevent someone from sticking a hydraulic cam in a solid block, though. It does seem odd, Patrick used to offer a hydraulic cam.
Now for personal opnion, I like the solids. They sound better to me, and nothing really screams "Hi-Perfomance Chevy" than a solid lifter cam a tickin' away under the hood. There's an old saying, "Nothing strikes fear in the hearts of Ford and Hemi drivers more than the sound of a Solid Lifter Chevy".

Maybe Patrick gave up on the hydraulic cams due to customers using them in the wrong blocks, with the wrong hydraulic lifters (for the year of their engine). And, maybe the customers were not happy with the level of noise that was still present, and the problems at high RPMs.

Maybe some of the negatives associated with hydraulic lifters is why the only 50-55 Powerglide application that used solid lifters was the 53-55 235 Blue Flame Six in Corvettes.

Tim

Is everybody missing the fact that he's got a 1961 engine? By that time, all the 235 blocks were set up for hydraulic lifters. Putting a solid lifter cam in an engine designed for hydraulics- - - -might as well install kerosene headlights and a crank, too! If you're concerned about oil volume, to the lifters, isn't there a high-output oil pump available?
Jerry

1950-52 Power Glide engines used hydraulic lifters and they only ran 14 psi max and worked fine.

There are some problems with hydraulic lifters, but most stem from them not being properly bleed when installed.

yes, a '61 block with a '56 head, and engine as is has solids. but since i'm rebuilding it, i thought i might go for hydros, even though ticking has a genuine appeal. so, if i stay with solids, and the other mods stay the same, what would be a good cam to use? specs etc

and yes, the hi-volume oil pump is also what i had on my mind. and if my memory serves me, there's some minor 'adjustment' for clearance?

I am a BIG fan of Clay Smith Cams. They have been around since hot rodding was born over here.

They ground me a cam for $200. This is a custom ground cam. Give them a call and have the specs of your truck handy, which sounds like you already do. Have in mind what you want to do with your truck. For mine I said low-end torque/light towing and cruising. They will grind it to what ever you want to do. At the very least check em' out.

PS: That's also been 3-4 years so the prices might have changed abit.

AF - excellent - i'll check'm out - thanks

" . . . he's got a 1961 engine? By that time, all the 235 blocks were set up for hydraulic lifters. Putting a solid lifter cam in an engine designed for hydraulics- - - -might as well install kerosene headlights and a crank, too! . . . "

Jerry,

Are you saying that a solid cam in a 58-62 (235 and 261) block is a recipe for problems or it is not appropriate? Those blocks were not designed just for hydraulics; they were designed for cars (hydraulic lifters) and for trucks (mechanical/solid lifters).

It should be noted that the the 1958 and later Truck Shop Manuals warn about not using the older-style mechanical lifters in 58-62 blocks, A new style of mechanical/solid lifters had to be used in 58-62 truck blocks (blocks that were designed for use with either mechanical or hydraulic lifters).

Tim

interesting tc. and according to my '68 chevy truck manual that i bought by accident, it lists two different hydraulic lifters that can be used, and no mention of using mechanicals. they even show the rebuilding process

rednate,

A 1968 Chevrolet Truck Shop Manual had information about 235/261 engines?

Tim

no tc, that's why i mentioned that i bought it by accident. but it is a '68 truck manual from chev/gm. it was just a passing comment from what i'd read there

I wouldn't refer to a 1968 manual for a 1961 engine. the 235 and 261 ended in 1962 with left over engines used in 4x4 in 1963,the end of this generation.If you purchase the 1961 shop manual,it will show you everything needed to rebuild engine.Reference the 1961 shop manual,it will be your friend.

I beleive you would actually need a '60 manual, I'm pretty sure the '61 is just a suppliment.

hey tc - you included a link above for the warning, but there wasn't a pic of the lifters/annulus, and i think i know what they're talking about but......is there a pic available?

and yes, the 'accidental' '68 manual is simply used for referencing mechanical/proceedural changes

and now, pre'68s comment has me scratching me head. 14psi hydraulics? i wonder if the internal springs were lighter

Scroll down to figure 15.

Tim

A hydraulic lifter does not need oil pressure to work properly, it only needs to be full of oil.

True enough, but all hydraulic lifters have a slight, but continuous leakdown whenever the valve spring pressure is applied to them. The engine oil pressure must be sufficient to refill the lifter every time the spring pressure is released. (lifter on the base circle, with no lift of the valve) At very low oil pressure the lifter does not refill, so it eventually bottoms out and starts to rattle. A splash-oiler 235 with hydraulics would need slightly diferent valving to assure the lifters stay filled with the lower oil pressure available.

My comment about solid lifter cams being obsolete was simply to mention that newer, more user-friendly technology is available. For normal operation, hydraulic lifters just result in a quieter-running engine that does not need the periodic valve adjustments that solid lifter engines do. If I can fit an appropriate-grind hydraulic cam to any engine I'm building, it's my first choice. Until I get into the 7,000 RPM+ operating range, a hydraulic cam is also my go-to system for the race engines I build.
Jerry

Jerry, 235 lifters are not like V8 lifters that loose oil up the push rod.
The oil that leaks up past the inner piston when the leak down occurs, just reenters the lifter reservoir, ready to refill the lower working section of the lifter.

One of these days I will put on a display of how 235 lifters work for all of you.

yeah tc - that's what i thought it was. and there are pics of two diff hydraulics/annulii in the '68 book, but stated as operationally identical but diff construction. they even go into checking their disassembly, operational check and re-filling with oil

My '56 235 bored .040 over with a single Rochester carb.
Other than a Pertronix ignition, the engine is stock,
with hydraulic lifters.
It also has a ton of power and torque,
and too, runs like a scalded dog.

I'm with Jerry, because I have never had a problem with hydraulic lifters in a 235.

According to one of Patrick's older catalogs:
The reason he gave up on the hydraulic cams was because,

"(**special note: there are, currently, no satisfactory aftermarket hydraulic lifters available. So, we suggest you install a solid-lifter cam/lifter combo.)"

also, "'58-'62 engines must use a lifter with chamfered sides to prevent shutting off rocker arm oil!"

yeah, it's the same note that they have in their current catalog