The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts More rim questions, i know you guys love them!

I have been trying to track down matching rims for my 36 1.5 ton for over a year un-successfully i really want the look of the tall skinnys that were on the truck...



Here is what i was trying to match, i have two of these, well one is a 1 piece ring, the other is a split
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo291/mack1416/IMG_0594.jpg

the other 4 that are on the rear are much wider and heavier, they have 8.5 wide tires on them, only 2 of them match each other, so basically out of the six that were on my truck 2 matched perfectly

So heres my real question, i recently have found a guy who has a complete set from a 46 1.5 ton that hes willing to sell to me cheap.. can someone tell me what size they are? would they be wider that the 20x6's that should have been on my truck?

I am pretty sure that they would have a more oval cut out.. which i dont like as much but.. ill take what i can get...

can someone clarify and help me out?

Thanks

Only the seller can definitively answer that question, ask him.

I'm surprised your wheels are 6" wide? Do you really mean that the stock tire size is 6.00x20? If so then the rim width between bead seats will be something noticeably less than 6".

Grigg

You are correct Gigg thats what i meant... 6X20 is the tire size the rim is closer to 4.5 in the center... I was trying to get too much done over lunch today.. haha

The rims that are currently on the back of my truck measure over 6.. they are monsters..

I will ask him.. but i know the truck is not where he lives.. so i was hoping someone could at least tell me what the stock wheel tire combo would have been on 46 1.5T

thanks

There isn't one answer to your question. My 1947 wheel listing says the 46 could have been set up with either 20x5s, 20x6s, 20x6.5s or 20x7s. Since it's a 1.5 ton you're naturally expecting the narrower of the options but, as you're seeing on your 36, wheels get changed over time. Even on your 36 the book shows your truck could have been sourced with 20x3.75s or 20x4.33s. The 20x4.33" was in later books called a 6" rim, but looking at the ones I have that are that size they look like what we'd today call a 5" rim. The standards on rim measurements have changed over the years and get confusing. Stu

thanks stu,

always like new info.. i would be very interested to know if there were 3 different rim options for my truck did they all have different size tires or were they just putting the 20x6 inch tires on all of them. I had thought i had a good handle on the tires rim situation but it appears that i do not...

arg.. confused...

Remember I said the measurement standards changed in the late '40s as best I can make out. So, on your truck they list either the 20 x 3.75 or 20 x 4.33. The 3.75" is the measurement inside along the wheel base between the lips. It was later called a 5" because that's the measurement across from outer rim lip to outer rim lip. Similarly the 4.33" was later called a 6". I just went out to the barn and put a tape on a couple of mine (unmounted) that I know the Budd numbers for and verified the measurements against the book.

The recommended tire for a 3.75" is a 6.00. A 6.50 appears to be acceptable. The recommended for the 4.33" was a 6.50 with a 7.00 acceptable. A 20 x 5.00 rim (7" by the later standard) would be 7.00 recommended with a 7.50 acceptable. Then you get into the 20 x 6.00 rims (8") and they list recommended as a 7.50 tire with 8.25 as acceptable. Obviously you might find tires mounted on rims that they aren't recommended for. That happens. Hope that helps and makes sense. Stu

stu,

thanks for the detailed explanation that really helped me understand, One of my rims from the front that i have unmounted is a 3.75

http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo291/mack1416/IMG_0607.jpg

and the other one that is still mounted has a 6.0 tire on it, but it still does have a different style ring

The guy with the full set of rims is supposed to call me tonight so hopefully i can nail down what he has, if they are wider i might just have to settle for them...

Thanks again for all your help

If you go to Grigg's Tech Article on wheels and look at the charts from the 1949 Budd catalog you'll see a Firestone design that is named the "RH". Yours should be similar, or maybe an older design called an "RI". They have continuous/non-split rings. If you have split rings they are probably Goodyear "L" or "LB". You should be able to find the rim/ring design stamped on them if they aren't too rusted. Whatever you do, don't mix-match the rim and ring sets. Very dangerous to mix-match because the components are made to work together. They can come apart violently if mix-matched. Stu

Oh i assure you I have read the article a few times... i am pretty sure i have the type L's on the front of my truck. I have made sure not to mix the rings up

I nabbed this picture from the guy with the rims,
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo291/mack1416/46truck.jpg
he tells me that they have 20-7.5 tires on them, so they aren't exactly what i want.. but i think if i run some 20-7.0 around 35" tall tires on them the look will be close enough to what i want

also i snapped these pics awhile back of one of the rims off the back of my truck, its a BUDD brand rim and very heavy, much thicker metal than the other rims i weighed it in a 60 pounds

http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo291/mack1416/IMG_0602.jpg
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo291/mack1416/IMG_0604.jpg

the tires were 8.5 wide and near 40" tall that came off of it, These rims appear to measure 5 in the center so would that mean you could run a 7" tire on it and i am wasting my time going to get the other set of rims?

I never would have guessed there were so many variances on these rims, i thought things were simple back then haha...

thanks again for all your help guys

Just to confuse matters a little bit, I just found a different chart in a 1945 catalog that says a 6.50 tire is recommended for a 5.00" (7") rim and permissible for a 4.33" (6"). That would let you put the 6 x 20s on your two narrow fronts and mount 6.50s on your present rears. (You sure had way too much tire on your rears!)

Looking at the Universal Tire on-line catalog the 6.00 and 6.50 sizes are similar outside diameter, 32.4" and 32.6" respectively. Here's the link:

http://www.universaltire.com/cart.php?target=category&category_id=343&pageID=1

Last thought, if you can pick up the other wheels cheap enough it'd be worth doing to my mind. Until you get your current ones unmounted and sand blasted you won't know if there are cracks, rust issues, or rivet damage. Especially with that much tire on the rear I'd be looking for overload damage. Having spares is sometimes a life saver. Stu

stu,

once again thanks for all your help, i think i will still make the drive to get them the price is right its just going to make for a looooong day, plus i think the ones im picking up even if they are for the same size tires have less of an offset which will help keep the rear from being excessively wide

Ill try to nab a picture of one of the big ones i have standing up next to the small one the big one is right about 40" tall

Oh and 1 of my rims (big ones) has a repaired crack in it, does this mean it should be scrapped?

I'm no metalurgist, but to my understanding welding adds hardness and brittleness to the area surrounding the repair. But if the repair has lasted 70 years or so, what's the risk? Assuming you're not gonna be working the truck like it was when new, you're probably ok with it. But if you're redoing it for show, using one of the "new" rims would probably be my choice. Stu

that is for cretin that a weld is more brittle, i just didn't know if there was something i was unaware of cause i was planning on running it if i hadn't found any other rims, but ill hold on to it until i get my truck sorted out then ill probably hold 1 spare rim and pass the rest of the rims on to other bolters that need them.. after i pick this set up .. ill have 13 rims.. and that takes up quite some space.. haha

No kidding. You should see my shop and barn! Stu

Well i just got back from a long weekend trip down to the st. louis area to pick up the rims off of what is left of the 46 in the photo
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo291/mack1416/IMG_1065.jpg

matching set of six along with some other odds and ends i scavenged off the remnants of the guys parts truck it was a long couple of hours getting these old rims off the truck.. they had been on there for a while the brakes were completely locked up made it trickier but i got them

Im thinking that these are Goodyear Type AR can anyone confirm this for me? Stu? grigg?

this is what appears to be the split locking ring
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo291/mack1416/IMG_1064.jpg

heres a shot of the back
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo291/mack1416/IMG_1063.jpg

Does anyone know how safe this style is... i was worried they were going to be the RH-5s when i was there and looking at them cause of the step when looking at it from the back side.. but now i am glad to say i dont think they are...

Those are 3 piece rims, you'll be just fine with them assuming they are in good shape inside and out.

Curious if they are from a newer model truck than a 46? don't know that they are but there is a chance.

Grigg

Thanks Grigg that puts my mind to rest a bit... i was a touch worried i wasted my time going to get them..

Well they were on a 46.. is there any way to tell what year they were manufactured? what makes you question if they were off a newer truck? they are definitely much better looking than the ones i cleaned up off my 36

The year of manufacture is sometimes stamped on the rim near the center on the inside.

The first record I show of an AR mount is 1949. That reference says it's a Firestone design, later references call it a Kelsey Hayes design. Maybe both are right since the companies teamed up on things during the era. There's also an old style AR and a new style AR shown in a 1953 K-H catalog. Yours look old style.

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll89/truckdog62563/Wheel%20Profiles/ARsideringandlockring.jpg

As far as manufacture date, on the K-H wheels I've messed with I've never found part numbers or dates like I would on Budd or Motor Wheel. The wheels don't look like MW to me, so if they are Budd the part numbers will be on the back rim lip and the manufacture month and year will be stamped between the lug holes on the face side.

I'll ditto Grigg's safety statement. Also, the old literature says that the three piece designs were developed for use on the bigger model trucks to allow the side ring to move with the tire bead under heavy load. Thus reducing chafing of the tire bead. Glad you got them and that they look to be in good shape. Stu

Thanks again guys, stu i definitely have the old style of side ring as you thought.

A few of the mis matched budd wheels i have do have numbers on them, i should write eveything down...

Thats interesting about the intent of the design, my truck will never see heavy loads, but thats ok. Yeah they do seem to be in retty good shape, the tires are still even soft (not that im going to use the tires) but they will be good rollers for now and hopefully easier to get off since the sidewalls still have some flex

Just a guess from the picture and what I've seen on other trucks, no concrete reason and no way to explain it..

There's your real answer, about 49-52 or so.

What's the pilot diameter on your 36 hubs?
The new wheels you found are for 4.75" hubs.
Some of the really old Chevy trucks with the same bolt pattern have even smaller hubs and the center hole in the wheel is smaller to match.

Grigg

The hub size is the same, i sliped one on last night, however my 36 has 9/16 studs (i think) and the rims i got have 5/8 holes i think...

But thankfully i decided to grab all the studs off the frame when i was down there, and the splines are the same, so i may end up switching out all my wheel studs

Is there a good source for these wheel studs.. i havent looked into it much yet, i was going to stop past a local truck place and see if they could get them

The book says '31 to '35 had 4.25" center bore, and that '36 was the first year for the 4.75".

That's good to know about the stud diameter. The books don't always tell me that. Replacement studs should be available from somewhere like BWP if not available locally. At worst I'd think you might have a little machine work to do on the hubs to accept the bigger studs. Stu

http://www.bwpindustries.com/

Both my old studs and the bigger studs have the same bore and spline, the older ones from my 36 just have more of a stepped shoulder on them. so i don't think any machining will be necessary, ill let you know i plan on trying to put some of them in either tonight or tomorrow

Glad i could provide you with a little information for once!

In case you guys were wondering the larger 5/8" studs are splined the same as the smaller 9/16 and change out with out too much hassle.. now i only wish i had grabbed all 20 for the rears.. only grabbed 10.. what was i thinkin... for now i just have 5 in each drum...