The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Water pump adapter

To early, what was I thinking!
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

The 3/8" belt is smaller than the 1/2" belt, so the 3/8" belt would slip down into the 1/2" harmonic balancer's pulley's groove, reducing the effective rotational diameter (and more slowly rotating the water pump than a 1/2" belt would do). I am not going to do the calculations.

This has been edited as per Pre 68 Dave's correction (below).

tclederman has it right.

On Dennys question, the 1/2" pulley has a deep enough groove to safety run a 3/8" belt

I noticed more water flow in the top of the rad with the small four inch pulley. With the seven inch pulley, the water did not seem to flow at idle as much. I had the rad cap off so I could see the termostat open. Any reason why more water with the adapter plate and smaller pulley?

smaller pully = pump turning faster

Bill

smaller pulley = pump turning faster

Smaller pulley on the water pump (yes) or the harmonic balancer (no)?

And does this big can of worms affect the cooling? I'm still pretty confused,,but its starting to make sense.

It seems to be cloudy to me but I've got all the parts now so I'l try it again. Thanks everyone for the interesting but very helpful input. Now if I can just get it not to leak!!!!

Update: I installed the adapter, water pump and the radiator shroud this afternoon. Its all buttoned up but I didn't add water/fluid as I'm going to let it set until Monday to help let it dry. I know permatex doesn't really ever dry completely. If anything might help me get this one not to leak, I'll try it!:-) I've got to work on Sunday or I'd go over there and put the fluid in it to see if it is going to leak. I am excited about it once again.

It was easy to put together and I followed the directions to a T. Now it is just a matter of does it leak or not? If it does, I'll just start again. I'm hopeful it isn't going to leak this time! Wish me luck!!! :-)

Bill

Update: Success!!!

It doesn't leak and I ran it for a very long time(about 45 minutes) in 86 degree weather and it never overheated or went above 180. I have to leave it for a couple of day on business but I can't wait to get back to playing with it again.

i had the chance to work and play with the firetruck this morning. It worked great! No leaks and it ran for several hours and never moved over 180 degrees.

I'll be the first to say it was a long journey but it seems to be worth the wait. Ok now I'm on to the next problem!!!!

Latest update: I've had much success with the new water pump adapter plate and fan setup. The increased air flow from the fan really cools the radiator and the truck has never gone over 180 with this setup. I had one new problem that came from this. The increased air flow blows a few drops of oil out of the vented breather cap which runs down the valvecover. I replaced the vented cap as it was two years old but that didn't solve the issue. Anyone else have this issue?

This never happened with the old lower mount waterpump and fan as there was not nearly the airflow. Keep in mind this oil issue doesn't happen at idle but at top speed. I've stuck a small piece of cardboard infront of the breather cap when I'm going for a high speed run around town but I remove it when ever I park the truck. That seems to solve the issue as it acts like a windscreen and no oil come out of the vented breather. Problem solved with a cheesy piece of cardboard but it does make me laugh. Its always something with this truck but I love the challenge.

Anyway anybody else have this issue and what'd you do about it?

I'll take a couple of photos later today and post them so you can see it.

I have been using the adapter for a couple years and everything if doing fine,I now have a working temp gauge and it will not go over 180. I did have a aluminum valve cover with a cap and oil would seep out of it now and then but I have since put on a 216 valve cover with no cap and even with the vents in it I have not gotten any oil on the valve cover out of the vents,the 216 valve covers cam be made to work on the 55-62 motors (I have a 57) and make sure you get the matching road draft tube so you have a place to put in the oil. I have been trying to make the 235 look as much like a 216 as possible.

Thanks for the idea but I don't have that 216 option. Mine came with the 235 in 1951. So I'm going to need to keep the 235 look.

I thought of putting the nonvented cap on it but after reading alot here about the need for the engine to breathe, I dropped that plan.

Here is a photo link of my current "fix" Cardboard Fix

I'm not sure when the option came along but my '53 6400 has a pcv type setup on it. I've read someplace about this being a option at some point or maybe a dealer installed option. My truck only has 14,xxx miles on it but its surprising how clean the motor is.
Good Luck
Don

Got any pictures?

If it was a 49 and earlier 235 you could do the same as me.

Dave: Thanks for the photos. I'm not going to create that set up on my truck. So far the "cardboard fix" is working great! I drove it about 45 miles today and didn't leak a drop on the valve cover.

Update: I've driven the firetruck over two hundred miles in the last two weeks "without" the cardboard fix and there was not a drop of oil leaking on my valve cover. I don't know what fixed this issue for my rig but I like it even better now. LOL

And I've checked the oil level in the engine and its full. So I don't know what strange thing will happen next... The truck ran didn't leak and never went over 180 degrees. I'd recommend the water pump mod to anyone who has the overheating truck issue.

Hi Virginiafiretruck,

I am having the same cooling issues and am considering the installation of the adapter plate. It looks like you installed yours with the engine in place. Did you have to drill and tap extra holes on your AD truck engine and how was that to do with the engine in? And do you have any pictures of the "before" just to compare (you're after pictures are great)

thanks - Doug

It was not drilled installed in the truck. We drilled it when it was on a stand. I did have to take the grille, parts and radiator out when I finally got the plate & pump in without it leaking. Frankly it would be just as easy to drill it inside the engine compartment if you remove the radiator & grille. It was really easy as the block metal seemed to be soft and the drill bit cut right into it. Just besure to keep it level and straight and only go in the depth on the instructions. Don't go too deep and it will all work out. Good luck.

Do you still have a copy of the instructions kicking around? I'm going to have either do this or get a shortened pump. I don't want to buy the plate and wimp out after seeing the directions. (drilling into an engine just seems so wrong )

Here is a copy of the instructions

How thick is the metal where the holes need to be drilled? 3/4" seems like quite a deep hole to drill.

(drilling into an engine just seems so wrong)

I cringed before and during the drilling of the block. But, I have now done two with no problems.

Those instructions work fine. However, I suggest using a gasket and sealer on both sides of the plate (even though the instructions indicate the gaskets are optional). Use an old-pump-style gasket (a gasket for the year of the pump) on the pump side of the plate and a new-pump-style gasket (a gasket for the year of the block) on the block side of the plate.

3/4" holes will not drill through on either hole ( holes C & D ). The metal on the right is thick; but, the metal on the left is only a little thicker than the 3/4" hole. Even if you drill through on the left, it does not seem to go through to a water jacket or an oil journal. Nonetheless, do not drill deeper than 3/4" (at the point of the drill bit).

As long as you are drilling and tapping holes in the block, you might want to consider drilling and tapping the two holes at the bottom of the timing gears' cover that is behind the harmonic balancer. You do this to allow the two bolt-heads to be on the outside of the cover (rather than inside the oil pan).

Tim

I can understand your concerns as I had those too. I tried everything to get it to stay cool but nothing seemed to do the trick so I finally took the step and drilled both holes.

Now I can say that with the adapter plate installed my truck has not gone over 180 degrees and the overheating problem has become a thing of the past. I highly recommend it.

And I didn't use gaskets the last time I installed it. I used the red color permatex and it worked great. Just let it dry for 24 hours before you add water.

I dont think my 37 got hot before I used the adapter but when the shortend water pump broke I found out I could not remove the water pump with the radiator installed and could not reomove the radiator with the water pump still on so something had to be done and now I can use a stock fan instead of the electric fan I had on the front of the radiator.

ugh, my luck. I ended up overdrilling the left hole. It didn't drill all the way through, but the tip did make a hole through. What exactly did I just put a hole into? I vacuumed out the shavings, but don't like the looks of this...

If you mean left as in drivers side, then that will break through into water. I would just put some Silicone in the hole before installing the bolt and some on the threads and you should be OK.
If it is the other side it breaks through into the bottom of a head bolt hole which is no problem.